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details from the rabbit hole I'm your

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host big words my guest today is Adam

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Taylor Adam is a retired 9/11 truth

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activist he used to be very active in

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the 9/11 truth movement the movement

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that advocates for a new investigation

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of the collapses of the World Trade

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Center buildings on 9/11 because they

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think that it was from something other

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than the impacts and the fires they

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think it was some kind of controlled

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demolition or something else Adam

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actually got into 9/11 activism very

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young he studied when he was just 16

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years old and he did a lot of it he made

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a lot of videos and he wrote a lot of

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blog posts and he was basically fully

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into it until a couple of years ago when

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he took a break from the movement on the

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advice of a debunker and after that kind

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of well he retired his stories very

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interesting here is Adam Adam welcome to

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tales from the rabbit hole thank you

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very much for being here

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well thank you for having me it's great

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to meet you and great to be here

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I originally contacted you like two

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years ago I was looking for people to

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interview a few days ago and I was going

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through various posts your name came up

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and I thought oh that sounds like a

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great guy and so I looked you up on

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Facebook and I'll send you a message on

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Facebook and I opened up the Facebook

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messenger and there was my message to

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you from two years ago saying and you

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saying like you know give me a nudge if

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you remind me next week or something

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like that and we were actually never

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actually got back together but now here

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we are two years later yeah and it was

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like two years ago they you wrote your

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essay why ten years at least for me is

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enough which was you kind of talking

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about how you were moving away from 9/11

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activism canoed okay let's go start at

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the beginning

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9/11 itself what do you what do you

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remember of the day

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itself well I was 10 when it happened

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and I was in school I think like a lot

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of you know my kids all across the

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country they were just you know going to

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school that day thing gonna be a normal

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day and I didn't actually see any

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footage from that day they didn't have

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any TVs in the classroom but you know we

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all kept here and like whispers and

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rumors about it like eventually it got

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to everybody in my class that they said

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a plane hit the Twin Towers and in my

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mind I just thought I think like a lot

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of people it was maybe an accident but

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somebody had accidentally hit into the

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towers but you know throughout the day

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it was becoming clear that that wasn't

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the case and when I got home that day my

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dad kind of sat me down and explained to

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me what happened that you know this was

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a terrorist attack this wasn't an

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accident this was intentional and you

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know to my ten-year-old mind that seemed

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like a completely you know it was

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totally alien to me the idea that people

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could do something like that yeah you

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know over the years I've learned to

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accept that that was you know something

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people were capable doing do you

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remember how your dad acted at the time

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like did he seem scared or was he trying

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to you know protect you from that type

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of feeling do you think um I mean

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thinking back I think he was certainly

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shaken like everybody else but I feel

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like he you know tried to talk to me

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about it in the best way that he could

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and try to you know handle it as calmly

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and appropriately as he could and I

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think he did honestly um I I had to kind

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of absorb what that day meant over a

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gradual amount of time you know I didn't

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take it all in at once which I think was

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probably good for somebody like me at

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that time yeah yeah but I first heard

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about it when I was on my way to work

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because I'm in California so just I got

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up and I was driving to work and I

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turned the radio on and I thought I was

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listening to some kind of some kind of

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play on the radio like a drama because

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it just seems so so amazing they were

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talking about you know bombing

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Washington and things like that and the

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guy sounded hysterically guy they were

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talking to

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and then I carried on I eventually

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figured it out I called my wife and I

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had to know I went to work and it was a

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very very bizarre day day for everybody

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but I only imagined being 10 years old

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they must be quite different I was about

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30-something at the time

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so you you say you you kind of you heard

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talk of conspiracy theories after that

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did you give it much thought like

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between now and like the when you first

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saw this documentary on the History

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Channel but before that though did you

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were you aware of like the 9/11

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conspiracy theories yeah I want to say

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the first time I ever heard about it was

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when they released the first images of

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the Pentagon strike I think when that

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they released those images that was on

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the news and I think even then there was

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already talked about it being a missile

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and I think I remember even looking at

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it thinking well you know I don't think

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it's a missile but I'll just say I

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certainly can't see a plane in those

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images but I didn't give it much thought

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and you know you hear just being on the

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internet you're inevitably gonna hear

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talk about that here and there there was

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talk about the towers being demolished

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and at the time I was just pretty

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incredulous to the whole thing I just

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didn't give it much leeway I figured

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alright maybe the government knows more

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about it than they're telling us which I

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think is likely one way or the other but

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I didn't think there was anything to

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these conspiracy theories and then in

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late 2007 like you said I saw just

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randomly going through TV I saw this

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documentary on the History Channel

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called 9/11 conspiracies fact or fiction

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and I thought I'd give it a watch cuz I

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figured well alright I've been hearing

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about these theories but I never

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actually like looked at them and seen

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you know really what they're all about

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so I'll take a look and I came at this

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as a total like outsider I didn't have

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any kind of firm belief one way or the

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other and the thing the documenter

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really did is that it really kind of

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opened my eyes to first of all the you

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know amount of suspicion there was like

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just how many

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people really believe this because I

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didn't really know there was like a

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whole movement behind this but it also

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showed me just like how many weird

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anomalies people had found like the

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scale of it was something I just didn't

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appreciate at the time and after the

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documentary was over I kind of thought

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this seems more serious than I thought

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maybe I actually should look into this

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so I started looking into it I watch you

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know movies like loose change like

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people had done and I went to certain

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911 sites like Jim Hoffman's 9/11 a

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research side was the one the first ones

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I found and from there I just started

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you know researching it and became more

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and more convinced more I found would

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you say there was like some kind of

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tipping point at all I was the you know

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one particular piece of evidence that

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you're saying really kind of pushed you

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over the edge

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um I don't know there was any one

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particular piece of evidence I think a

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lot of it is very compelling looking at

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it and I know you and I will disagree on

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this of course which is fine but you

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know it seemed to blee the evidence was

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you know pretty overwhelming as far as I

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could tell just looking at the way the

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towers fell a lot of the evidence for

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you know foreknowledge

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I looked into as well a lot of it just

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seemed like cumulative ly it doesn't

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seem like the official narrative we've

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been given can possibly be true and I'll

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make it clear that there's a lot of

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theories about 9/11 that I don't believe

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in and you know we can go into that too

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I've had to that's been I've been a big

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part of what I've been done doing over

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the years is trying to like weed out you

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know the good theories from the bad

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theories you know because a lot of good

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ones out there was a lot of really bad

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ones out there and you know the problem

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I had and partly why I kind of retired

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from the truth movement is because it's

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all kind of mixed up and nobody seems

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like they've really gone to the trouble

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of like clearing out all the bad stuff

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and just focusing on the good stuff

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really even in some of the most

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comprehensive investigators in the truth

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movement I don't know that I've totally

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seen that yeah yeah

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you know something like I feel like yeah

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I have a kind of a deep banker person

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and I think that the the official story

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at least of the collapses of the

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buildings and the impacts of the planes

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and the Pentagon and and the Shanksville

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I feel that those are pretty pretty

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likely to be what happened and so I can

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you're coming at it from very different

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position to you but I still think that's

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clearing away all these false

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conspiracies is you're the ultimate goal

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essentially like you want to try to

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figure out what what is the truth what

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did actually happen and if there was

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some some bad stuff going down on 9/11

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from our own government or if it was

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even if it's just at the level of there

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was some incompetence or some lapses or

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oh you maybe some deliberate acts that

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happened around that time like all this

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other stuff is kind of a distraction

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from it I know you you can feel that

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about things like you know cruise

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missile hitting the Pentagon do you

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think that's a a distraction yeah any

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kind of pretty much any kind of no

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planar theories that are out there I you

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know thinker have no basis to them and

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I'm honestly like very sick of them I've

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had lots of discussions with you know

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World Trade Center know planners

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Pentagon know planners and it's it's

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really frustrating to somebody like me

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and was over the years because it makes

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my job so much harder because I would

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talk to people about what I considered

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be good evidence some people would

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actually bring up stuff about like you

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know the Pentagon or no plane crashing

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into the towers or even in Shanksville

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and so I'd have to kind of explain to

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them no no I don't believe in that

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here's why you shouldn't either so it's

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like I have to do like double the work

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pretty much so it makes my job so much

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harder and that that's the kind of stuff

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that really bugs me along yeah may be

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great if everybody was on the same page

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or closer to how you know you're on the

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same page which doesn't mean they have

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the exact same opinions but thinking

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they're talking about the same things if

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someone's talking about the planes being

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00:10:59,850 --> 00:10:57,939
Holograms then they're not really gonna

273
00:11:02,100 --> 00:10:59,860
be like interested in you your your

274
00:11:03,929 --> 00:11:02,110
evidence for I don't know whatever

275
00:11:04,530 --> 00:11:03,939
remote control planes or things like

276
00:11:07,830 --> 00:11:04,540
that

277
00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:07,840
yeah yeah so you said you watched loose

278
00:11:10,500 --> 00:11:09,250
change that was another one she watched

279
00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:10,510
next

280
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:13,090
it's interesting you said that you you

281
00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:14,650
wouldn't recommend the early editions of

282
00:11:19,860 --> 00:11:17,050
loose change this is this quite popular

283
00:11:22,590 --> 00:11:19,870
documentary here back in the mid-2000s

284
00:11:24,030 --> 00:11:22,600
it's had several editions since then in

285
00:11:26,850 --> 00:11:24,040
the first ones were kind of had a whole

286
00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:26,860
bunch of of errors but against you know

287
00:11:32,340 --> 00:11:29,530
people still a lot of people mention

288
00:11:35,220 --> 00:11:32,350
loose change was it something that

289
00:11:37,110 --> 00:11:35,230
implements you a lot at the time well

290
00:11:38,850 --> 00:11:37,120
the reason I went to that is because

291
00:11:40,620 --> 00:11:38,860
that was kind of the main film they

292
00:11:42,330 --> 00:11:40,630
focused on in the History Channel

293
00:11:45,780 --> 00:11:42,340
documentary they talked about that one

294
00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:45,790
so much and I thought well they talked

295
00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:47,410
about this documentary so much I might

296
00:11:51,900 --> 00:11:50,290
as well go and watch it and I don't

297
00:11:53,220 --> 00:11:51,910
think the third edition was out yet I

298
00:11:56,310 --> 00:11:53,230
think when I watched it it was still

299
00:11:57,300 --> 00:11:56,320
just the second edition that was out and

300
00:11:59,310 --> 00:11:57,310
at the time I thought it was very

301
00:12:00,390 --> 00:11:59,320
impressive there was a lot of stuff in

302
00:12:03,030 --> 00:12:00,400
it that wasn't mentioned in the

303
00:12:05,100 --> 00:12:03,040
documentary you know stuff that they you

304
00:12:07,590 --> 00:12:05,110
know could have brought up it's just

305
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:07,600
what I've learned now I wouldn't

306
00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:09,130
recommend the second edition because I

307
00:12:14,250 --> 00:12:11,010
just think there's too much in it it's

308
00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:14,260
you know it it's been a constant thing

309
00:12:18,570 --> 00:12:16,210
for me I'm I tend to be very picky about

310
00:12:21,150 --> 00:12:18,580
which 9/11 films I recommend to people

311
00:12:23,970 --> 00:12:21,160
like truth movement films cuz sometimes

312
00:12:28,020 --> 00:12:23,980
if there's like stuff in it that's too

313
00:12:30,660 --> 00:12:28,030
much false info I just can't do it you

314
00:12:32,790 --> 00:12:30,670
know it's like I've had my way with the

315
00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:32,800
third edition for example third edition

316
00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:35,530
I think is still the best one you know

317
00:12:39,300 --> 00:12:37,690
cuz they don't really go with the idea

318
00:12:41,100 --> 00:12:39,310
of plane didn't hit the Pentagon they

319
00:12:44,190 --> 00:12:41,110
kind of hint at it like if it was up to

320
00:12:45,900 --> 00:12:44,200
me I would just say in the film no plane

321
00:12:47,970 --> 00:12:45,910
most likely did hit and we should just

322
00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:47,980
forget about the no client stuff but you

323
00:12:53,130 --> 00:12:50,530
know kind of a Midway to that I guess

324
00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:53,140
I'm okay with yeah but yeah loose change

325
00:12:58,650 --> 00:12:54,850
was one of the early films I saw like a

326
00:12:59,910 --> 00:12:58,660
lot of people and I've seen a lot of you

327
00:13:02,610 --> 00:12:59,920
know truth movement films that are

328
00:13:04,050 --> 00:13:02,620
pretty good I think 9/11 press for truth

329
00:13:06,420 --> 00:13:04,060
is really good people should definitely

330
00:13:09,150 --> 00:13:06,430
watch that one a lot of really good ones

331
00:13:10,650 --> 00:13:09,160
out there but loose change at least the

332
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:10,660
first and second edition I think people

333
00:13:15,030 --> 00:13:12,490
can skip I think the third and the the

334
00:13:17,790 --> 00:13:15,040
final coup edition that was put out too

335
00:13:18,980 --> 00:13:17,800
I think or both pretty good and

336
00:13:21,030 --> 00:13:18,990
get people some pretty good information

337
00:13:24,269 --> 00:13:21,040
yeah I should probably watch them I

338
00:13:25,740 --> 00:13:24,279
haven't a sort many many years ago I was

339
00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:25,750
probably watching something like the

340
00:13:30,660 --> 00:13:27,490
second or third edition I can't remember

341
00:13:32,430 --> 00:13:30,670
exactly well I should probably watch it

342
00:13:35,670 --> 00:13:32,440
to get up-to-date with what people are

343
00:13:38,220 --> 00:13:35,680
saying so yeah you have to lose change

344
00:13:42,060 --> 00:13:38,230
you say you you can have found several

345
00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:42,070
useful 911 websites so you mentioned

346
00:13:49,230 --> 00:13:45,130
three of them 911 research 9/11 truth

347
00:13:52,079 --> 00:13:49,240
and 9/11 blogger what did you get from

348
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:52,089
like all these these these websites it

349
00:13:56,190 --> 00:13:54,250
was good that those were sort of the

350
00:13:58,530 --> 00:13:56,200
early ones I found because just like

351
00:14:02,699 --> 00:13:58,540
with the movies there's a lot of very

352
00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:02,709
bad 9/11 truth websites out there too in

353
00:14:07,069 --> 00:14:04,810
particular Jim Hoffman's site the his I

354
00:14:10,380 --> 00:14:07,079
11 research site was the one I kind of

355
00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:10,390
found the most useful just because of

356
00:14:15,690 --> 00:14:11,890
the setup of it you know the fact that

357
00:14:18,449 --> 00:14:15,700
every page on that site you know had

358
00:14:20,490 --> 00:14:18,459
like footnoted references so like it had

359
00:14:22,079 --> 00:14:20,500
you know its source what I'm saying so I

360
00:14:23,730 --> 00:14:22,089
can go check it and I liked that I

361
00:14:26,610 --> 00:14:23,740
thought that was really handy and it was

362
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:26,620
set up in this very like encyclopedic

363
00:14:30,269 --> 00:14:29,050
type way so it was easy to navigate you

364
00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:30,279
know it's like the presentation was very

365
00:14:33,510 --> 00:14:31,810
professional and that already kind of

366
00:14:36,930 --> 00:14:33,520
told me in this seemed like this was a

367
00:14:39,410 --> 00:14:36,940
good resource to go to and 9/11 truth

368
00:14:43,019 --> 00:14:39,420
and 9/11 bloggers you know kind of more

369
00:14:45,510 --> 00:14:43,029
activists sites but they seem to be you

370
00:14:47,069 --> 00:14:45,520
know pretty responsible to so early on

371
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:47,079
it was just a matter of trying to weed

372
00:14:50,250 --> 00:14:48,490
out what looked like you know the

373
00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:50,260
responsible truth sites and the

374
00:14:53,940 --> 00:14:51,970
irresponsible ones and there's a lot of

375
00:14:56,370 --> 00:14:53,950
irresponsible ones out there and those

376
00:14:59,880 --> 00:14:56,380
are ones that I tend to avoid and not

377
00:15:03,319 --> 00:14:59,890
give any credence to yeah yeah the

378
00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:03,329
Senate quite a wide variety of websites

379
00:15:09,510 --> 00:15:06,250
and then you kind of got into blogging

380
00:15:12,150 --> 00:15:09,520
yourself at this point with 9/11

381
00:15:14,130 --> 00:15:12,160
debunkers dot blog spot.com and you

382
00:15:16,100 --> 00:15:14,140
couldn't fly started making posts on

383
00:15:20,670 --> 00:15:16,110
that and how did how did that come about

384
00:15:22,319 --> 00:15:20,680
yeah it was actually in 2009 when loose

385
00:15:25,259 --> 00:15:22,329
change final coos come out it actually

386
00:15:26,670 --> 00:15:25,269
comes back to loose change again they

387
00:15:28,470 --> 00:15:26,680
announced that they were releasing this

388
00:15:29,850 --> 00:15:28,480
new edition of loose change

389
00:15:31,980 --> 00:15:29,860
and I was really excited about that

390
00:15:33,870 --> 00:15:31,990
because it looked really professionally

391
00:15:37,470 --> 00:15:33,880
made and I it was gonna be up to date I

392
00:15:39,930 --> 00:15:37,480
thought oh that's great so what I

393
00:15:41,340 --> 00:15:39,940
started doing was going to the loose

394
00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:41,350
change site and going on the loose

395
00:15:45,180 --> 00:15:43,510
change forum from time to time I didn't

396
00:15:47,100 --> 00:15:45,190
ever sign up as a poster but I would

397
00:15:48,300 --> 00:15:47,110
just kind of you know peruse it from

398
00:15:51,269 --> 00:15:48,310
time to time to kind of keep up to date

399
00:15:53,790 --> 00:15:51,279
with what was going on and on one thread

400
00:15:56,790 --> 00:15:53,800
that I can't find anymore somebody

401
00:15:59,610 --> 00:15:56,800
posted a link to this website called 911

402
00:16:00,930 --> 00:15:59,620
debunkers blog spot.com which I had

403
00:16:03,150 --> 00:16:00,940
never heard of but they said it was a

404
00:16:05,610 --> 00:16:03,160
site for you know addressing debunkers

405
00:16:08,579 --> 00:16:05,620
which I was interested in so I thought

406
00:16:09,930 --> 00:16:08,589
oh okay let's check that out and I was

407
00:16:11,460 --> 00:16:09,940
really impressed with it when I was

408
00:16:14,970 --> 00:16:11,470
looking through it because the people

409
00:16:17,730 --> 00:16:14,980
they're posting were really taking on

410
00:16:19,050 --> 00:16:17,740
what debunkers were saying in a pretty

411
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:19,060
comprehensive way and it really

412
00:16:25,710 --> 00:16:22,810
impressed me and eventually I got a hold

413
00:16:28,620 --> 00:16:25,720
of the main guy who ran it my friend now

414
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:28,630
john-michael Tambo and I've been making

415
00:16:33,750 --> 00:16:30,730
like just little videos for YouTube

416
00:16:35,910 --> 00:16:33,760
about 9/11 and I contacted and basically

417
00:16:37,980 --> 00:16:35,920
just said hey I like what you're doing

418
00:16:40,889 --> 00:16:37,990
the site looks great I'm making videos

419
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:40,899
kind of addressing - bunkers - you know

420
00:16:44,699 --> 00:16:42,970
if you want to take a look at him and he

421
00:16:46,199 --> 00:16:44,709
got back to me and looked at it and he

422
00:16:48,780 --> 00:16:46,209
liked what I was doing - and said yeah

423
00:16:51,810 --> 00:16:48,790
I'll post him at the site if that's ok I

424
00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:51,820
said sure and eventually he asked me you

425
00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:53,170
know do you want to write for the site I

426
00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:55,570
thought yeah I could do that I've never

427
00:17:00,660 --> 00:16:57,370
written for a website or a blog before

428
00:17:03,500 --> 00:17:00,670
but I can give that a shot and that was

429
00:17:07,140 --> 00:17:03,510
really kind of a big turning point in my

430
00:17:10,020 --> 00:17:07,150
you know research in 9/11 and what I was

431
00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:10,030
doing as an activist because I was

432
00:17:13,890 --> 00:17:11,890
basically I think at that point trying

433
00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:13,900
to find kind of my niche in the truth

434
00:17:19,020 --> 00:17:15,730
movement and I think the debunkers blog

435
00:17:20,340 --> 00:17:19,030
was absolutely my niche that I really

436
00:17:22,350 --> 00:17:20,350
feel like that's where I was supposed to

437
00:17:26,189 --> 00:17:22,360
be because I I think I wrote some of my

438
00:17:27,539 --> 00:17:26,199
best stuff about that at that site so I

439
00:17:29,250 --> 00:17:27,549
was really happy to find that and

440
00:17:31,890 --> 00:17:29,260
meeting John Michael I got to be

441
00:17:34,380 --> 00:17:31,900
involved in 9/11 activism far more than

442
00:17:36,299 --> 00:17:34,390
I could have been otherwise so yeah it

443
00:17:38,610 --> 00:17:36,309
was it was great finding that site in

444
00:17:40,950 --> 00:17:38,620
writing for there for so many years so

445
00:17:42,900 --> 00:17:40,960
did you that you're writing for a blog

446
00:17:46,590 --> 00:17:42,910
that's addressing debunk

447
00:17:48,810 --> 00:17:46,600
so do you think you prefer kind of doing

448
00:17:50,250 --> 00:17:48,820
that addressing debunking rather than

449
00:17:52,620 --> 00:17:50,260
trying to persuade people by just

450
00:17:54,540 --> 00:17:52,630
presenting the evidence you see that as

451
00:17:56,220 --> 00:17:54,550
a was it more fun or do you think it was

452
00:17:58,950 --> 00:17:56,230
more effective to do things like that

453
00:18:01,920 --> 00:17:58,960
why do you think you preferred that well

454
00:18:04,170 --> 00:18:01,930
I think actually doing that was a good

455
00:18:06,390 --> 00:18:04,180
way to present evidence I think that I

456
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:06,400
think that I did do that a lot in the

457
00:18:10,590 --> 00:18:08,050
post Center Road I think it accomplished

458
00:18:13,410 --> 00:18:10,600
two goals actually I think on the one

459
00:18:15,150 --> 00:18:13,420
hand we could address the claims

460
00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:15,160
debunkers were making and at the same

461
00:18:20,310 --> 00:18:17,170
time present the evidence that we felt

462
00:18:22,470 --> 00:18:20,320
was compelling and a lot of good came

463
00:18:24,270 --> 00:18:22,480
out of that I think and just to be clear

464
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:24,280
it wasn't just debunkers that we were

465
00:18:29,340 --> 00:18:27,010
addressing on that blog if you go on

466
00:18:31,770 --> 00:18:29,350
there we've got you know tons of posts

467
00:18:33,750 --> 00:18:31,780
addressing truthers - and claims that

468
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:33,760
they've made that we felt weren't very

469
00:18:38,340 --> 00:18:36,010
good so that's not our thing about it

470
00:18:40,620 --> 00:18:38,350
was that was a really good way - like I

471
00:18:44,610 --> 00:18:40,630
was saying before weed out sort of the

472
00:18:47,430 --> 00:18:44,620
good evidence from bad so yeah I mean we

473
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:47,440
took to task truthers I'd say just as

474
00:18:51,750 --> 00:18:50,410
much as debunkers that's really what the

475
00:18:54,930 --> 00:18:51,760
point of the blog was it was really

476
00:18:56,340 --> 00:18:54,940
about weeding out the bad evidence and

477
00:18:58,350 --> 00:18:56,350
the good evidence the good arguments the

478
00:18:59,910 --> 00:18:58,360
battle recommence and I think doing it

479
00:19:01,530 --> 00:18:59,920
that way allowed us to do that pretty

480
00:19:03,690 --> 00:19:01,540
effectively yeah it's interesting you

481
00:19:05,790 --> 00:19:03,700
know the sites called 9/11 debunkers and

482
00:19:09,420 --> 00:19:05,800
it's kind of not clear from the title

483
00:19:11,910 --> 00:19:09,430
whether you it's about 9/11 debunkers or

484
00:19:14,370 --> 00:19:11,920
you are debunkers who talk about 9/11

485
00:19:16,530 --> 00:19:14,380
because a lot of what you do essentially

486
00:19:18,420 --> 00:19:16,540
would be debunking you'll be debunking

487
00:19:20,910 --> 00:19:18,430
the no plain things should be debunking

488
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:20,920
the Judy woods stuff and you know the

489
00:19:24,990 --> 00:19:23,170
other theories like that so you are

490
00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:25,000
Addie bunker in a way but just with a

491
00:19:32,100 --> 00:19:29,050
different perspective yeah and that's

492
00:19:33,270 --> 00:19:32,110
kind of related to a lot of people in

493
00:19:37,020 --> 00:19:33,280
the movement would say that the

494
00:19:38,370 --> 00:19:37,030
debunkers themselves are the conspiracy

495
00:19:40,860 --> 00:19:38,380
theorists because they believe the

496
00:19:42,540 --> 00:19:40,870
government's conspiracy yeah I don't

497
00:19:44,220 --> 00:19:42,550
necessarily like to get into the

498
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:44,230
back-and-forth about who's the debunker

499
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:47,530
who's the conspiracy theorist I like to

500
00:19:51,660 --> 00:19:50,170
just say we're all researchers looking

501
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:51,670
into 9/11 and we just kind of different

502
00:19:55,770 --> 00:19:53,410
conclusions that's how I prefer to look

503
00:19:57,810 --> 00:19:55,780
at it so what do you think of

504
00:19:59,730 --> 00:19:57,820
what back then what did you think of the

505
00:20:03,990 --> 00:19:59,740
debunkers like the people who were

506
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:04,000
writing posts like trying to debunk 9/11

507
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:08,290
truth flames well I thought in some

508
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:11,410
cases a lot of they said was right like

509
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:13,690
I don't think everything every debunker

510
00:20:18,690 --> 00:20:16,210
said about 9/11 has been wrong you know

511
00:20:23,340 --> 00:20:18,700
I've had my mind changed plenty of times

512
00:20:25,050 --> 00:20:23,350
by arguments they presented I think that

513
00:20:27,030 --> 00:20:25,060
you know I'm a genuinely disagree with

514
00:20:28,890 --> 00:20:27,040
them about the conclusion but you know

515
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:28,900
I've learned from them and I hope that

516
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:30,850
some degree they've learned from me too

517
00:20:36,390 --> 00:20:33,730
I've actually seen debunkers say they

518
00:20:41,670 --> 00:20:36,400
think that I got some stuff right that I

519
00:20:43,140 --> 00:20:41,680
talked about so yeah I I don't have any

520
00:20:45,660 --> 00:20:43,150
ill will against I need to bunker like

521
00:20:49,050 --> 00:20:45,670
one of the things I've made clear is

522
00:20:51,690 --> 00:20:49,060
I've never seen the debunkers as the

523
00:20:53,250 --> 00:20:51,700
enemies of the truth movement the only

524
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:53,260
people that I consider to be the enemies

525
00:20:56,910 --> 00:20:55,330
or the bad guys in this whole situation

526
00:20:58,800 --> 00:20:56,920
are the people that actually care about

527
00:21:01,500 --> 00:20:58,810
the attacks whoever they are they're

528
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:01,510
indisputably the bad guys the people

529
00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:03,490
that are the enemies here but the

530
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:06,130
debunkers I really have just try to look

531
00:21:09,900 --> 00:21:08,050
at them as other researchers to just

532
00:21:12,210 --> 00:21:09,910
came to a different conclusion about not

533
00:21:15,330 --> 00:21:12,220
love than I have that's pretty much it

534
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:15,340
yeah what about the people who make

535
00:21:19,620 --> 00:21:17,050
claims that can have everybody you know

536
00:21:22,170 --> 00:21:19,630
the debunkers and and you agree are

537
00:21:25,650 --> 00:21:22,180
wrong like the you know more extreme the

538
00:21:27,270 --> 00:21:25,660
no plain people do you think of them as

539
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:27,280
being the bad guys I mean they're

540
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:28,810
obviously not the bad guys because they

541
00:21:35,900 --> 00:21:30,730
didn't do anything but they're not

542
00:21:38,910 --> 00:21:35,910
helping well I I think they are just

543
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:38,920
very very bad very irresponsible

544
00:21:43,260 --> 00:21:41,290
researchers that's kind of how I would

545
00:21:44,580 --> 00:21:43,270
phrase it I do think that they did a lot

546
00:21:46,380 --> 00:21:44,590
of harm to the truth movement to

547
00:21:48,900 --> 00:21:46,390
potentially more harm that even the

548
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:48,910
bunkers have just because a lot of these

549
00:21:53,430 --> 00:21:52,090
wacky theories that are out there it's

550
00:21:55,410 --> 00:21:53,440
the kind of thing that the one thing the

551
00:21:56,970 --> 00:21:55,420
media preys upon when they want to try

552
00:22:01,140 --> 00:21:56,980
to discredit us you know they would

553
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:01,150
point out like for example there was I

554
00:22:08,410 --> 00:22:03,970
think a couple of I think it was a BBC

555
00:22:10,150 --> 00:22:08,420
documentary the the conspiracy files the

556
00:22:12,220 --> 00:22:10,160
they had like a big closeup of a guy at

557
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:12,230
Ground Zero with like an O planar shirt

558
00:22:16,390 --> 00:22:14,570
on or in a National Geographic

559
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:16,400
documentary they had a close-up of

560
00:22:20,380 --> 00:22:18,050
people holding up this big sign saying

561
00:22:21,940 --> 00:22:20,390
no planes at the towers so I know that

562
00:22:25,030 --> 00:22:21,950
when these theories get brought up the

563
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:25,040
media often times takes those and tries

564
00:22:28,660 --> 00:22:27,290
to like make it look like you know we're

565
00:22:31,180 --> 00:22:28,670
crazy like they don't differentiate

566
00:22:33,010 --> 00:22:31,190
between the people who are promoting

567
00:22:34,810 --> 00:22:33,020
those theories but any other theories

568
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:34,820
and that that bothers me that frustrates

569
00:22:38,710 --> 00:22:36,890
me a lot I wouldn't call them enemies I

570
00:22:41,290 --> 00:22:38,720
would just call them very irresponsible

571
00:22:43,270 --> 00:22:41,300
I call them irresponsible conspiracy

572
00:22:44,830 --> 00:22:43,280
theorists I think there's a responsible

573
00:22:46,870 --> 00:22:44,840
way to be a conspiracy theorist and

574
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:46,880
irresponsible ways to be conspiracy

575
00:22:50,910 --> 00:22:48,410
theorists and it's just trying to figure

576
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:50,920
out you know who's who in that sense

577
00:22:54,100 --> 00:22:52,850
yeah that's interesting what you say

578
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:54,110
about the media cuz it kind of bothers

579
00:22:57,940 --> 00:22:55,730
me as well like I write about the

580
00:23:00,430 --> 00:22:57,950
chemtrail conspiracy theorist and like

581
00:23:04,030 --> 00:23:00,440
everybody every time it comes up in the

582
00:23:05,830 --> 00:23:04,040
media people will say oh these people

583
00:23:08,430 --> 00:23:05,840
believe that we're being sprayed with

584
00:23:10,900 --> 00:23:08,440
mind-altering chemicals from the sky

585
00:23:12,190 --> 00:23:10,910
when hardly any of the chemtrail people

586
00:23:14,110 --> 00:23:12,200
actually believe that that's kind of

587
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:14,120
like the no plain version of the

588
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:16,610
chemtrails theory the most common thing

589
00:23:21,250 --> 00:23:18,410
of the chemtrail theory is that they

590
00:23:24,610 --> 00:23:21,260
think it's secret secretly trying to

591
00:23:27,790 --> 00:23:24,620
modify the climate and so that when the

592
00:23:29,890 --> 00:23:27,800
media or other debunkers or the skeptics

593
00:23:32,290 --> 00:23:29,900
I stopped putting out these extreme

594
00:23:35,860 --> 00:23:32,300
versions as being the straw man to

595
00:23:37,660 --> 00:23:35,870
attack then it really yeah it hinders

596
00:23:40,810 --> 00:23:37,670
communication it makes it hard for me to

597
00:23:42,100 --> 00:23:40,820
actually talk to people you've really

598
00:23:44,500 --> 00:23:42,110
got to figure out what the person you're

599
00:23:46,630 --> 00:23:44,510
talking to actually believes in rather

600
00:23:48,820 --> 00:23:46,640
than addressing some kind of caricature

601
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:48,830
that they that you imagine they but they

602
00:23:51,820 --> 00:23:49,930
all believe in it

603
00:23:55,510 --> 00:23:51,830
another thing I found really interesting

604
00:23:57,630 --> 00:23:55,520
about your your let your essay was your

605
00:24:01,480 --> 00:23:57,640
accountant your going to New York in

606
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:01,490
2011 and for you it was like a very kind

607
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:03,890
of almost like a powerful experience

608
00:24:08,620 --> 00:24:06,530
going to go there and meet fellow

609
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:08,630
activists for the first time can you can

610
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:10,610
tell us about and what happened there

611
00:24:17,950 --> 00:24:14,450
yeah there was a big deal because you

612
00:24:20,110 --> 00:24:17,960
know for the vast majority of my work in

613
00:24:21,700 --> 00:24:20,120
the truth movement I wasn't one of those

614
00:24:22,540 --> 00:24:21,710
people going out with like groups of

615
00:24:23,830 --> 00:24:22,550
people and the

616
00:24:26,130 --> 00:24:23,840
the Blackshirts like you know

617
00:24:28,450 --> 00:24:26,140
demonstrating out on the street like

618
00:24:30,550 --> 00:24:28,460
pretty much I was doing this all on my

619
00:24:32,350 --> 00:24:30,560
own for the most part like yes working

620
00:24:33,940 --> 00:24:32,360
with people on the blog and writing

621
00:24:35,620 --> 00:24:33,950
posts but as far as like going out and

622
00:24:37,180 --> 00:24:35,630
actually doing any kind of activist

623
00:24:39,730 --> 00:24:37,190
stuff I was pretty much doing it all on

624
00:24:42,220 --> 00:24:39,740
my own like I would you know go to the

625
00:24:44,170 --> 00:24:42,230
store and buy you know reams of paper

626
00:24:45,790 --> 00:24:44,180
and ink from my printer to like make my

627
00:24:49,770 --> 00:24:45,800
own homemade pamphlets to try to hand

628
00:24:53,890 --> 00:24:49,780
out like that's pretty much it and then

629
00:24:56,350 --> 00:24:53,900
me John Michael and his wife we went to

630
00:24:58,330 --> 00:24:56,360
New York in 2011 for the 10 year

631
00:25:00,250 --> 00:24:58,340
anniversary and that was the first time

632
00:25:01,690 --> 00:25:00,260
I'd ever been to New York for one thing

633
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:01,700
and the first time I've been to Ground

634
00:25:07,750 --> 00:25:06,050
Zero for 9/11 and it was yeah part of it

635
00:25:09,190 --> 00:25:07,760
was a really powerful experience to be

636
00:25:11,530 --> 00:25:09,200
there like with everybody you know

637
00:25:14,770 --> 00:25:11,540
demonstrating calling for a new

638
00:25:18,940 --> 00:25:14,780
investigation but the other aspect to it

639
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:18,950
was there was a little sense of like it

640
00:25:22,090 --> 00:25:20,330
didn't seem like the movement was going

641
00:25:24,940 --> 00:25:22,100
anywhere because from one thing the

642
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:24,950
turnout was a lot smaller than I had

643
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:29,210
seen in you know that seemed videos like

644
00:25:33,310 --> 00:25:31,850
the one but once from 2006 to 2007 there

645
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:33,320
was like hundreds if not thousands of

646
00:25:38,470 --> 00:25:35,450
people with those and this one there was

647
00:25:40,030 --> 00:25:38,480
like maybe a hundred two hundred and

648
00:25:41,650 --> 00:25:40,040
something like that it was a decent

649
00:25:43,660 --> 00:25:41,660
amount of people but it wasn't anywhere

650
00:25:47,350 --> 00:25:43,670
near what they had in previous years and

651
00:25:49,210 --> 00:25:47,360
for me that was kind of a you know the

652
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:49,220
first visual sign I'd seen that like the

653
00:25:56,950 --> 00:25:51,650
movement was really stagnating like it

654
00:25:58,150 --> 00:25:56,960
was losing real momentum and and I was

655
00:25:59,890 --> 00:25:58,160
even talking to people there who were

656
00:26:02,770 --> 00:25:59,900
still talking about really bad evidence

657
00:26:04,030 --> 00:26:02,780
and that kind of filled me with more

658
00:26:07,630 --> 00:26:04,040
dread where it felt like we weren't

659
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:07,640
getting anywhere so for me like in my

660
00:26:11,590 --> 00:26:10,250
post I talked about how you know people

661
00:26:14,110 --> 00:26:11,600
have said the movement kind of peaked in

662
00:26:15,490 --> 00:26:14,120
2006 and that might be the case you know

663
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:15,500
because that was technically the biggest

664
00:26:21,850 --> 00:26:18,890
turnout in 2006 for the the five-year

665
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:21,860
anniversary but for me I would say that

666
00:26:26,470 --> 00:26:23,330
was probably when it peaked because that

667
00:26:27,970 --> 00:26:26,480
was sort of the the height of my truth

668
00:26:28,740 --> 00:26:27,980
or activism and how much I've gotten

669
00:26:31,750 --> 00:26:28,750
involved

670
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:31,760
and after that I just feel like the

671
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:33,530
momentum was steadily declining more and

672
00:26:38,239 --> 00:26:36,330
more so it was unfortunate but

673
00:26:40,999 --> 00:26:38,249
I couldn't ignore the warning signs when

674
00:26:43,009 --> 00:26:41,009
they were there pretty much so did

675
00:26:44,989 --> 00:26:43,019
things change for you after that because

676
00:26:47,089 --> 00:26:44,999
of that when you saw that did you

677
00:26:48,649 --> 00:26:47,099
or was that just kind of something you

678
00:26:53,329 --> 00:26:48,659
identify in the past as being a point

679
00:26:56,479 --> 00:26:53,339
when things changed um I mean it changed

680
00:26:59,149 --> 00:26:56,489
in the sense that like like I myself

681
00:27:02,119 --> 00:26:59,159
personally had momentum up to that point

682
00:27:03,739 --> 00:27:02,129
like I had still a passion to do it and

683
00:27:06,019 --> 00:27:03,749
I think after that is just when that

684
00:27:08,449 --> 00:27:06,029
passion started to steadily decline like

685
00:27:10,639 --> 00:27:08,459
that was the point where my momentum

686
00:27:13,549 --> 00:27:10,649
certainly was going down just because I

687
00:27:16,940 --> 00:27:13,559
could see the momentum of the movement

688
00:27:19,549 --> 00:27:16,950
and total was going down um like where I

689
00:27:22,060 --> 00:27:19,559
was kind of at at that point was I sort

690
00:27:24,709 --> 00:27:22,070
of knew that maybe like the activism

691
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:24,719
aspect of the movement had kind of been

692
00:27:29,899 --> 00:27:27,570
going down since 2006 where I kind of

693
00:27:32,869 --> 00:27:29,909
had my hope set was in more of the

694
00:27:34,099 --> 00:27:32,879
academic aspect to it because you know

695
00:27:35,779 --> 00:27:34,109
the scientists in the movement have been

696
00:27:37,459 --> 00:27:35,789
getting papers actually published in

697
00:27:39,709 --> 00:27:37,469
peer-reviewed journals at that point and

698
00:27:41,719 --> 00:27:39,719
I was starting to think that okay maybe

699
00:27:45,109 --> 00:27:41,729
the activists you know sign up it's not

700
00:27:46,899 --> 00:27:45,119
going to be the driving force but it

701
00:27:49,039 --> 00:27:46,909
seems like in the academic community

702
00:27:50,779 --> 00:27:49,049
we're making more progress and maybe

703
00:27:53,389 --> 00:27:50,789
that's where we'll you know have our

704
00:27:55,159 --> 00:27:53,399
next wave momentum I feel like the

705
00:27:57,199 --> 00:27:55,169
academic aspect of it was sort of the

706
00:27:58,759 --> 00:27:57,209
second wave of the truth movement in a

707
00:28:02,419 --> 00:27:58,769
sense and that's sort of where I had my

708
00:28:04,879 --> 00:28:02,429
hopes set but even that didn't seem like

709
00:28:07,190 --> 00:28:04,889
it was going anywhere because you know

710
00:28:09,979 --> 00:28:07,200
the active thematic material paper and

711
00:28:12,769 --> 00:28:09,989
everybody I assumed knows about that was

712
00:28:15,109 --> 00:28:12,779
put out in 2009 that's like the closest

713
00:28:17,209 --> 00:28:15,119
that you know anyone never gotten to

714
00:28:19,759 --> 00:28:17,219
showing that there was actual explosives

715
00:28:20,839 --> 00:28:19,769
in the debris from Ground Zero and then

716
00:28:24,709 --> 00:28:20,849
that didn't see the beginning of

717
00:28:27,349 --> 00:28:24,719
anywhere to a new investigation so you

718
00:28:30,739 --> 00:28:27,359
know seeing that even that even like the

719
00:28:33,619 --> 00:28:30,749
academic aspect of it wasn't getting us

720
00:28:36,379 --> 00:28:33,629
any closer to a new investigation that

721
00:28:39,109 --> 00:28:36,389
was also a point where it felt like you

722
00:28:40,069 --> 00:28:39,119
know we weren't getting anywhere with it

723
00:28:42,409 --> 00:28:40,079
that we weren't going to get into

724
00:28:44,359 --> 00:28:42,419
investigation you know where I had my

725
00:28:46,020 --> 00:28:44,369
hopes set even that wasn't working out

726
00:28:48,290 --> 00:28:46,030
and so that was

727
00:28:51,690 --> 00:28:48,300
kind of a main turning point for me too

728
00:28:53,100 --> 00:28:51,700
why do you think that that the dust that

729
00:28:55,650 --> 00:28:53,110
is this these things where they found

730
00:28:58,070 --> 00:28:55,660
this supposedly active emitting material

731
00:29:02,250 --> 00:28:58,080
in the dust why do you think that didn't

732
00:29:03,540 --> 00:29:02,260
get more play in in academia with people

733
00:29:06,780 --> 00:29:03,550
who are interested in this type of thing

734
00:29:09,660 --> 00:29:06,790
we had this this was a couple of studies

735
00:29:12,330 --> 00:29:09,670
I can't remember exactly how many but it

736
00:29:15,420 --> 00:29:12,340
was it dr. Jones did this one Steven

737
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:15,430
Jones and he did some tests and you

738
00:29:21,150 --> 00:29:18,330
found some material which he thought was

739
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:21,160
not thermite exactly but active emitting

740
00:29:24,570 --> 00:29:23,170
material he was a bit strange about what

741
00:29:29,310 --> 00:29:24,580
it was exactly then there was a kind of

742
00:29:31,590 --> 00:29:29,320
a counter study by resound Miller James

743
00:29:33,180 --> 00:29:31,600
yeah she lit James the light yeah and

744
00:29:34,770 --> 00:29:33,190
then there was supposed to be another

745
00:29:36,930 --> 00:29:34,780
study after that but it can never

746
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:36,940
happened and it just kind of petered out

747
00:29:41,340 --> 00:29:39,490
like nothing has really been done by it

748
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:41,350
but we still they still have this one or

749
00:29:47,070 --> 00:29:45,010
a couple of studies from back then why

750
00:29:48,870 --> 00:29:47,080
why do you think nobody in the entire

751
00:29:54,030 --> 00:29:48,880
world that's really been interested in

752
00:29:57,030 --> 00:29:54,040
in furthering this study well I'm not

753
00:29:59,640 --> 00:29:57,040
exactly sure about that it's maybe more

754
00:30:01,650 --> 00:29:59,650
than I can say I will say it's not that

755
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:01,660
nobody's taking interest in it I know

756
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:03,970
that you know some scientists have

757
00:30:08,390 --> 00:30:07,210
commented on it as far as I know James

758
00:30:12,630 --> 00:30:08,400
maletas the only one that actually

759
00:30:14,820 --> 00:30:12,640
published a counter study and his study

760
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:14,830
as far as I know it's still online and

761
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:16,210
freely available it wasn't ever

762
00:30:20,940 --> 00:30:18,010
submitted for peer review it was

763
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:20,950
supposed to be and just it never was I

764
00:30:25,860 --> 00:30:23,050
don't know if that had anything to do

765
00:30:27,660 --> 00:30:25,870
with kind of stagnating the interest in

766
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:27,670
the paper if people just heard there was

767
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:30,090
a counter study that showed it was wrong

768
00:30:35,250 --> 00:30:33,250
maybe that had something to do with it

769
00:30:37,020 --> 00:30:35,260
I don't know I don't know why the

770
00:30:41,310 --> 00:30:37,030
academic community didn't take more

771
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:41,320
notice of it I wish they had you know

772
00:30:45,770 --> 00:30:42,850
maybe they did and just weren't

773
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:45,780
convinced by it but you know the fact is

774
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:48,010
there's the fact that there is currently

775
00:30:52,350 --> 00:30:50,170
no you know peer review refutation of

776
00:30:53,850 --> 00:30:52,360
that paper I mean that it was something

777
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:53,860
that we can say there was never any kind

778
00:30:58,410 --> 00:30:56,890
of discussion submitted of it like I

779
00:30:59,130 --> 00:30:58,420
said the milette paper wasn't ever peer

780
00:31:03,270 --> 00:30:59,140
reviewed

781
00:31:05,610 --> 00:31:03,280
um so in that sense the peer review of

782
00:31:07,530 --> 00:31:05,620
that paper I think does stand that does

783
00:31:09,090 --> 00:31:07,540
I mean it's right I know care of you

784
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:09,100
doesn't mean that it absolutely is right

785
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:11,890
it's just that as far as I can tell it's

786
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:14,410
gone unchallenged as far as you know the

787
00:31:21,630 --> 00:31:18,010
peer-reviewed standards go but but I

788
00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:21,640
don't know I wish the academic community

789
00:31:26,550 --> 00:31:23,440
and granted we needed more than just

790
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:26,560
that we needed you know support of

791
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:27,730
people with subpoena power to take

792
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:29,410
notice of that too and use that to try

793
00:31:34,140 --> 00:31:31,450
to you know get us a new investigation

794
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:34,150
yeah I think like perhaps more more

795
00:31:38,750 --> 00:31:37,810
studies from neutral parties might be a

796
00:31:40,650 --> 00:31:38,760
good start

797
00:31:42,870 --> 00:31:40,660
essentially mentioned like in a peer

798
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:42,880
review studies don't necessarily mean

799
00:31:46,140 --> 00:31:44,770
something is true and this is this is

800
00:31:47,790 --> 00:31:46,150
true I think this is a mistake a lot of

801
00:31:49,230 --> 00:31:47,800
even like you know people who are

802
00:31:50,940 --> 00:31:49,240
scientific skeptics who pride themselves

803
00:31:52,020 --> 00:31:50,950
on being scientific they're always

804
00:31:54,900 --> 00:31:52,030
saying like you know show me the

805
00:31:57,450 --> 00:31:54,910
peer-reviewed studies but those

806
00:31:59,130 --> 00:31:57,460
peer-reviewed studies that prove

807
00:32:01,310 --> 00:31:59,140
chemtrails exist there's actually quite

808
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:01,320
a few that's about ten different papers

809
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:04,930
published by this one guy who somehow

810
00:32:10,590 --> 00:32:06,850
managed to publish all these papers on

811
00:32:12,930 --> 00:32:10,600
chemtrails and they are peer reviewed in

812
00:32:14,460 --> 00:32:12,940
in journals and you know it's it doesn't

813
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:14,470
necessarily mean something you need

814
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:16,570
multiple independent verifications of

815
00:32:20,610 --> 00:32:19,330
something rather than simple peer review

816
00:32:22,710 --> 00:32:20,620
peer reviewer in a lot of cases just

817
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:22,720
means people read the paper and see if

818
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:25,570
there's any obvious mistakes that they

819
00:32:32,070 --> 00:32:30,610
can see personally and there's I think

820
00:32:34,170 --> 00:32:32,080
the quality of peer review probably

821
00:32:36,030 --> 00:32:34,180
varies a lot I'm not saying anything

822
00:32:38,100 --> 00:32:36,040
about Stephen Jones paper specifically

823
00:32:40,500 --> 00:32:38,110
but certainly for this chemtrail paper

824
00:32:44,580 --> 00:32:40,510
the peer review was not very good at all

825
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:44,590
one so you mentioned architects and

826
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:46,690
engineers for 9/11 truth and that you

827
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:49,810
are kind of disappointed by what they

828
00:32:55,350 --> 00:32:51,610
did and this this architects and

829
00:32:58,770 --> 00:32:55,360
engineers for 9/11 truth is is headed by

830
00:33:00,210 --> 00:32:58,780
Richard gage and architects and he's

831
00:33:02,070 --> 00:33:00,220
collected a whole bunch of people who

832
00:33:04,890 --> 00:33:02,080
were either architects or engineers or

833
00:33:07,380 --> 00:33:04,900
various other people and these are

834
00:33:09,270 --> 00:33:07,390
people who think that 9/11 was

835
00:33:12,659 --> 00:33:09,280
controlled demolition essentially and

836
00:33:14,399 --> 00:33:12,669
they've got this kind of authority

837
00:33:16,950 --> 00:33:14,409
guess that they're all architects and

838
00:33:19,409 --> 00:33:16,960
engineers and as they've got 3,000

839
00:33:21,509 --> 00:33:19,419
people to sign a petition but you say

840
00:33:22,799 --> 00:33:21,519
you were kind of dismayed by the

841
00:33:25,710 --> 00:33:22,809
activities of architects and engineers

842
00:33:28,769 --> 00:33:25,720
by 9/11 truth I mean obviously you share

843
00:33:33,239 --> 00:33:28,779
goals what was it what they did that

844
00:33:35,549 --> 00:33:33,249
dismayed you um it kind of goes back to

845
00:33:39,599 --> 00:33:35,559
my thing about my hope was in sort of

846
00:33:42,210 --> 00:33:39,609
the academic aspect of 9/11 that I was

847
00:33:44,220 --> 00:33:42,220
really hoping because we had so many

848
00:33:48,269 --> 00:33:44,230
experts that agreed with us we've been

849
00:33:50,430 --> 00:33:48,279
getting more detailed studies you know

850
00:33:52,830 --> 00:33:50,440
published in you know respectable

851
00:33:55,139 --> 00:33:52,840
scientific venues now granted a lot of

852
00:33:57,060 --> 00:33:55,149
that's been done we actually have a lot

853
00:33:59,519 --> 00:33:57,070
of papers at this point published in

854
00:34:01,349 --> 00:33:59,529
peer-reviewed journals that either

855
00:34:04,409 --> 00:34:01,359
directly or indirectly support

856
00:34:06,389 --> 00:34:04,419
controlled demolition for example but I

857
00:34:08,970 --> 00:34:06,399
would just like to seen a lot more of

858
00:34:11,970 --> 00:34:08,980
that like one of things I say in my post

859
00:34:15,359 --> 00:34:11,980
is like of like the you know 3,000

860
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:15,369
members they have if just say a hundred

861
00:34:19,319 --> 00:34:17,770
of them each published a paper in a

862
00:34:21,839 --> 00:34:19,329
peer-reviewed journal or submitted it to

863
00:34:25,230 --> 00:34:21,849
a peer-reviewed journal I know that

864
00:34:27,419 --> 00:34:25,240
because of the taboo nature of 9/11 and

865
00:34:28,829 --> 00:34:27,429
especially with the towers I can see why

866
00:34:33,629 --> 00:34:28,839
it'd be really hard to get those kind of

867
00:34:35,190 --> 00:34:33,639
papers published and accepted but if if

868
00:34:36,930 --> 00:34:35,200
just a hundred did if there was a

869
00:34:39,450 --> 00:34:36,940
hundred papers published in like a

870
00:34:41,099 --> 00:34:39,460
different journal by these people odds

871
00:34:42,539 --> 00:34:41,109
are at least a few of them would get

872
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:42,549
accepted and would get you know

873
00:34:46,319 --> 00:34:44,530
published and that would get the

874
00:34:48,809 --> 00:34:46,329
attention of you know more people more

875
00:34:51,149 --> 00:34:48,819
people in the academic community in the

876
00:34:53,549 --> 00:34:51,159
engineering community and some of that's

877
00:34:56,190 --> 00:34:53,559
been done and there have been cases

878
00:34:58,589 --> 00:34:56,200
where people in the movement have tried

879
00:34:59,940 --> 00:34:58,599
to submit papers to science journals and

880
00:35:02,069 --> 00:34:59,950
they have been rejected for kind of

881
00:35:03,990 --> 00:35:02,079
these weird reasons like the journals

882
00:35:06,569 --> 00:35:04,000
gave on these very odd excuses like why

883
00:35:07,950 --> 00:35:06,579
they weren't gonna publish them and why

884
00:35:09,270 --> 00:35:07,960
they weren't even gonna review them like

885
00:35:10,829 --> 00:35:09,280
it's not even that they reviewed them

886
00:35:12,270 --> 00:35:10,839
and found that they just were bad papers

887
00:35:15,510 --> 00:35:12,280
and they were rejecting them it was that

888
00:35:17,339 --> 00:35:15,520
he said these weird things about oh this

889
00:35:19,589 --> 00:35:17,349
is outside the scope of the journal that

890
00:35:21,539 --> 00:35:19,599
you're trying to publish in or you know

891
00:35:23,430 --> 00:35:21,549
this or that so just some kind of odd

892
00:35:25,020 --> 00:35:23,440
reasons which I think supports the side

893
00:35:25,660 --> 00:35:25,030
to you that because of the type of

894
00:35:27,700 --> 00:35:25,670
nature

895
00:35:30,819 --> 00:35:27,710
that some journals might be reluctant to

896
00:35:32,620 --> 00:35:30,829
even publish stuff like that but like I

897
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:32,630
said because of just the the numbers we

898
00:35:37,779 --> 00:35:35,170
have if there was more of a you know

899
00:35:39,730 --> 00:35:37,789
concentrated effort to get these things

900
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:39,740
published I think the odds are yeah we

901
00:35:43,630 --> 00:35:41,930
would get a lot but you know that just

902
00:35:45,549 --> 00:35:43,640
hasn't happened as much as I would like

903
00:35:48,190 --> 00:35:45,559
it to yeah well it's gonna be up to the

904
00:35:49,870 --> 00:35:48,200
obviously up to the individuals to make

905
00:35:51,839 --> 00:35:49,880
that decision but in from from my

906
00:35:54,549 --> 00:35:51,849
perspective that kind of seemed like

907
00:35:56,710 --> 00:35:54,559
evidence that the case isn't that strong

908
00:35:59,109 --> 00:35:56,720
because if the the case was a fairly

909
00:36:01,089 --> 00:35:59,119
strong case wouldn't it be fairly

910
00:36:03,910 --> 00:36:01,099
straightforward to have hundreds of

911
00:36:08,829 --> 00:36:03,920
people writing papers explaining what

912
00:36:12,490 --> 00:36:08,839
the case was um to an extent now I will

913
00:36:15,670 --> 00:36:12,500
say that there is as far as I know

914
00:36:18,430 --> 00:36:15,680
currently some work to get that done

915
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:18,440
you know I am like I said retired from

916
00:36:22,390 --> 00:36:20,450
the movement for the most part but I've

917
00:36:24,190 --> 00:36:22,400
got you know friends on Facebook who are

918
00:36:25,690 --> 00:36:24,200
in the movement who post things about it

919
00:36:27,970 --> 00:36:25,700
so I do keep up-to-date with what's

920
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:27,980
going on and from what I understand

921
00:36:32,049 --> 00:36:29,930
there was somebody from architects and

922
00:36:33,999 --> 00:36:32,059
engineers who is actually gonna be

923
00:36:35,890 --> 00:36:34,009
presenting a conference paper at an

924
00:36:39,220 --> 00:36:35,900
engineering conference which that's

925
00:36:42,249 --> 00:36:39,230
great I think part of the problem too is

926
00:36:44,710 --> 00:36:42,259
that maybe a lot of this is kind of like

927
00:36:47,559 --> 00:36:44,720
you know a little late to the game

928
00:36:49,089 --> 00:36:47,569
like I would its terms like presenting

929
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:49,099
an engineering paper and a major

930
00:36:54,940 --> 00:36:51,170
conference I would have much rather that

931
00:36:58,720 --> 00:36:54,950
happened you know like in 2006 or 2007

932
00:37:00,849 --> 00:36:58,730
rather than 2019 like I think it'd have

933
00:37:03,039 --> 00:37:00,859
been much better because that's another

934
00:37:05,069 --> 00:37:03,049
reason why I feel like there's

935
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:05,079
stagnation in the movement is because

936
00:37:09,430 --> 00:37:07,490
the more the years go on the kind of the

937
00:37:11,319 --> 00:37:09,440
less interest people have in 9/11 and

938
00:37:12,910 --> 00:37:11,329
they have the mindset of oh that

939
00:37:16,329 --> 00:37:12,920
happened in the past we need to move on

940
00:37:17,799 --> 00:37:16,339
from it it seems like this is something

941
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:17,809
that we kind of needed to get a new

942
00:37:23,259 --> 00:37:20,690
investigation into pretty quickly like

943
00:37:25,329 --> 00:37:23,269
it's a little sooner than you know the

944
00:37:26,799 --> 00:37:25,339
activities that are going on now like we

945
00:37:30,039 --> 00:37:26,809
might be at that point where even if we

946
00:37:33,190 --> 00:37:30,049
did have evidence that would you know be

947
00:37:34,839 --> 00:37:33,200
conclusive that itself might not get us

948
00:37:36,370 --> 00:37:34,849
a new investigation because the public

949
00:37:37,870 --> 00:37:36,380
interest has just gone down so much that

950
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:37,880
nobody wants to even take up this issue

951
00:37:41,510 --> 00:37:38,450
anyway

952
00:37:44,660 --> 00:37:41,520
but surely if there was some conclusive

953
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:44,670
evidence and that would be very

954
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:50,010
difficult to ignore and um to a degree

955
00:37:54,850 --> 00:37:52,410
I'd also would say we're at that point

956
00:37:57,110 --> 00:37:54,860
where a lot of the evidence sort of

957
00:38:00,800 --> 00:37:57,120
because of the years of going on is not

958
00:38:02,900 --> 00:38:00,810
you know accessible to us anymore like

959
00:38:04,460 --> 00:38:02,910
one example is it'd be great to do more

960
00:38:07,580 --> 00:38:04,470
studies of like the dust from Ground

961
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:07,590
Zero um to see what's there but because

962
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:09,690
so many years have gone by you know

963
00:38:14,420 --> 00:38:10,890
aughh seen the wreckage it's been

964
00:38:16,730 --> 00:38:14,430
cleared away I don't know because I'm

965
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:16,740
not a chemist or an explosive expert but

966
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:18,330
a lot of the you know if there was

967
00:38:23,300 --> 00:38:21,450
explosive material there it might have

968
00:38:24,710 --> 00:38:23,310
you know kind of deteriorated at this

969
00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:24,720
point like may not even be able to

970
00:38:29,930 --> 00:38:26,730
detect it even if we had like access to

971
00:38:32,030 --> 00:38:29,940
more dust samples so that's the other

972
00:38:35,420 --> 00:38:32,040
thing too is just like the you know

973
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:35,430
expiring of the evidence might be going

974
00:38:40,550 --> 00:38:38,370
on to an extent to to where no matter

975
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:40,560
what we want to look into the evidence

976
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:42,330
is just it's just gone we don't have

977
00:38:46,850 --> 00:38:43,890
access to it anymore and have no way of

978
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:46,860
getting access to it so I do think that

979
00:38:50,750 --> 00:38:48,330
as far as getting a new investigation

980
00:38:52,310 --> 00:38:50,760
it's something that it if it was gonna

981
00:38:55,820 --> 00:38:52,320
happen I think it needed to happen a lot

982
00:38:58,130 --> 00:38:55,830
sooner than then later basically mm-hmm

983
00:39:02,000 --> 00:38:58,140
there's some things that you personally

984
00:39:04,430 --> 00:39:02,010
I think considered to be fairly absolute

985
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:04,440
evidence like things like the the speed

986
00:39:09,020 --> 00:39:07,050
at which the buildings collapsed mm-hmm

987
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:09,030
I don't know if you feel more strongly

988
00:39:15,710 --> 00:39:13,770
about the towers or building seven but

989
00:39:18,380 --> 00:39:15,720
you know wouldn't you personally say

990
00:39:21,140 --> 00:39:18,390
that that's conclusive evidence that it

991
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:21,150
was not a fire and impact driven

992
00:39:29,330 --> 00:39:27,330
collapse well I would say that the rate

993
00:39:32,030 --> 00:39:29,340
of the collapses and I do think that is

994
00:39:33,620 --> 00:39:32,040
indicative demolition probably more for

995
00:39:35,060 --> 00:39:33,630
Building seven than for the towers

996
00:39:37,390 --> 00:39:35,070
because as you know if anybody knows

997
00:39:42,290 --> 00:39:37,400
building seven came down in freefall for

998
00:39:45,950 --> 00:39:42,300
100 stories for a few seconds so I do

999
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:45,960
think that's pretty conclusive but I'd

1000
00:39:51,350 --> 00:39:48,330
say that tentatively like I personally

1001
00:39:55,730 --> 00:39:51,360
have not seen a good explanation

1002
00:39:57,740 --> 00:39:55,740
for that yet you know like I'll say it

1003
00:39:59,180 --> 00:39:57,750
here if you ask me am I like a hundred

1004
00:40:01,610 --> 00:39:59,190
percent certain the towers were

1005
00:40:04,100 --> 00:40:01,620
demolished I would say no I think it's

1006
00:40:06,770 --> 00:40:04,110
very likely but I'm certainly open to

1007
00:40:09,110 --> 00:40:06,780
the notion that they weren't I just

1008
00:40:10,430 --> 00:40:09,120
haven't seen conclusive arguments or

1009
00:40:12,500 --> 00:40:10,440
evidence to you know convince me

1010
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:12,510
otherwise but I certainly feel like I

1011
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:14,970
can have my mind changed but you know I

1012
00:40:18,430 --> 00:40:16,410
guess the flipside of that is that you

1013
00:40:21,230 --> 00:40:18,440
haven't seen conclusive evidence that

1014
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:21,240
proves that it is or cause convinced you

1015
00:40:27,500 --> 00:40:25,050
that it is yeah I have not seen a good

1016
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:27,510
explanation for example that explains

1017
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:29,370
how building seven could have come down

1018
00:40:35,030 --> 00:40:33,090
for example in terms of how it collapsed

1019
00:40:38,450 --> 00:40:35,040
at the rate it did and how the building

1020
00:40:42,290 --> 00:40:38,460
itself behaved like I'll just give one

1021
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:42,300
example real quick if I can yeah so the

1022
00:40:47,830 --> 00:40:44,610
explanation I've usually heard for why

1023
00:40:50,540 --> 00:40:47,840
building 7 collapse as quickly as it did

1024
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:50,550
it for free fall and even after that is

1025
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:53,850
because what we're seeing in the videos

1026
00:40:59,780 --> 00:40:56,850
is just the outer shell of the building

1027
00:41:02,240 --> 00:40:59,790
collapse and that the interior is what

1028
00:41:04,010 --> 00:41:02,250
collapsed first and then what you had

1029
00:41:05,780 --> 00:41:04,020
was basically in the shell in the

1030
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:05,790
building and that's basically what NIST

1031
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:07,410
says about the collapse they say that

1032
00:41:12,620 --> 00:41:09,930
you had this progressive collapse going

1033
00:41:13,940 --> 00:41:12,630
across or the the interior collapse

1034
00:41:16,850 --> 00:41:13,950
first and then you see the perimeter

1035
00:41:19,970 --> 00:41:16,860
falling down and that would explain why

1036
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:19,980
it collapsed quickly as it did but the

1037
00:41:24,380 --> 00:41:22,530
problem I have with that is if the

1038
00:41:28,250 --> 00:41:24,390
interior is collapsing before the

1039
00:41:31,910 --> 00:41:28,260
exterior why don't we see you know these

1040
00:41:33,380 --> 00:41:31,920
large deformations in deformity in the

1041
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:33,390
shell itself as the interior is coming

1042
00:41:37,850 --> 00:41:35,970
down and that's a problem that not even

1043
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:37,860
just people in the truth movement have

1044
00:41:42,050 --> 00:41:40,650
even the bunkers have had that dr. frank

1045
00:41:47,720 --> 00:41:42,060
greening for example if you're familiar

1046
00:41:50,240 --> 00:41:47,730
with him he wrote a paper to nist it was

1047
00:41:53,060 --> 00:41:50,250
feedback on their draft report for their

1048
00:41:55,790 --> 00:41:53,070
building 7 report and he said that yeah

1049
00:41:57,980 --> 00:41:55,800
the interior you know is connected to

1050
00:42:00,380 --> 00:41:57,990
the exterior by dozens of girders and

1051
00:42:03,050 --> 00:42:00,390
beams and we should have seen all this

1052
00:42:05,130 --> 00:42:03,060
you know deforming happening on the

1053
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:05,140
outside of it but

1054
00:42:10,500 --> 00:42:09,130
don't see that and then I hear people

1055
00:42:12,779 --> 00:42:10,510
say and I think it was even nist who

1056
00:42:14,819 --> 00:42:12,789
said this and some debunkers that well

1057
00:42:17,849 --> 00:42:14,829
it's because you know the outer shell

1058
00:42:19,890 --> 00:42:17,859
was you know sturdy and strong enough to

1059
00:42:22,589 --> 00:42:19,900
not deform as the interior was coming

1060
00:42:25,019 --> 00:42:22,599
down but I hear that and think but wait

1061
00:42:27,269 --> 00:42:25,029
you're also saying that the exterior was

1062
00:42:29,220 --> 00:42:27,279
weak enough then that's why it allowed

1063
00:42:31,410 --> 00:42:29,230
it to collapse as quickly as it did so

1064
00:42:34,559 --> 00:42:31,420
it's like you can't argue that the

1065
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:34,569
exterior was both strong and weak you

1066
00:42:38,220 --> 00:42:36,010
can't say that it was strong enough to

1067
00:42:40,559 --> 00:42:38,230
avoid deforming as the interior was

1068
00:42:41,730 --> 00:42:40,569
coming down but also say it was weak

1069
00:42:43,470 --> 00:42:41,740
enough that allowed the building to

1070
00:42:45,839 --> 00:42:43,480
collapse as quickly as it did you know

1071
00:42:48,599 --> 00:42:45,849
for two nanoseconds in total free fall

1072
00:42:52,380 --> 00:42:48,609
so that's a bizarre contradiction that I

1073
00:42:54,089 --> 00:42:52,390
don't see a good explanation for um as

1074
00:42:55,710 --> 00:42:54,099
far as why the building collapse the way

1075
00:42:58,170 --> 00:42:55,720
it did like it seemed like the building

1076
00:43:00,990 --> 00:42:58,180
kept its shape pretty well like aside

1077
00:43:02,220 --> 00:43:01,000
from the kink as it was collapsing it

1078
00:43:04,470 --> 00:43:02,230
seems like it kept its shape pretty well

1079
00:43:06,210 --> 00:43:04,480
as it was collapsing and you know I've

1080
00:43:07,710 --> 00:43:06,220
seen that happen and that's in buildings

1081
00:43:09,420 --> 00:43:07,720
that have you known abroad down a

1082
00:43:11,130 --> 00:43:09,430
demolition I've seen demolitions where

1083
00:43:13,529 --> 00:43:11,140
when the building comes down it kind of

1084
00:43:16,829 --> 00:43:13,539
keeps its shape for the most part you

1085
00:43:18,269 --> 00:43:16,839
know as its collapsing so that's one way

1086
00:43:20,519 --> 00:43:18,279
that that can happen and that seems

1087
00:43:22,859 --> 00:43:20,529
consistent with a demolition when I look

1088
00:43:24,509 --> 00:43:22,869
at building seven yes an interesting

1089
00:43:27,499 --> 00:43:24,519
thing that your description there of

1090
00:43:31,019 --> 00:43:27,509
your objections to the the the argument

1091
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:31,029
and I don't want to I mean it sounds

1092
00:43:38,370 --> 00:43:36,970
like yeah no I I don't really have a

1093
00:43:40,349 --> 00:43:38,380
better explanation right my explanation

1094
00:43:43,980 --> 00:43:40,359
is the same it's that the exterior of

1095
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:43,990
the building is a moment resisting frame

1096
00:43:48,390 --> 00:43:45,970
which means that all the connections are

1097
00:43:49,799 --> 00:43:48,400
bolted in all directions so that none of

1098
00:43:52,079 --> 00:43:49,809
nothing can bend no matter which way

1099
00:43:54,710 --> 00:43:52,089
whereas the interior connections are

1100
00:43:56,910 --> 00:43:54,720
only basically supporting connections

1101
00:43:59,249 --> 00:43:56,920
they support the vertical load of the

1102
00:44:01,680 --> 00:43:59,259
building and they support the the floors

1103
00:44:03,839 --> 00:44:01,690
on these on the shelves or the various

1104
00:44:05,370 --> 00:44:03,849
connections that they have so when the

1105
00:44:08,039 --> 00:44:05,380
columns collapse in the middle of the

1106
00:44:10,529 --> 00:44:08,049
building that falls down and it kind of

1107
00:44:14,130 --> 00:44:10,539
the floors kind of pivot around the

1108
00:44:17,190 --> 00:44:14,140
exterior connections and then they kind

1109
00:44:18,870 --> 00:44:17,200
of flop down and the exterior connection

1110
00:44:22,870 --> 00:44:18,880
because it's moment resisting

1111
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:22,880
resisting turning forces it doesn't it

1112
00:44:26,890 --> 00:44:24,770
doesn't twist in which where the

1113
00:44:28,270 --> 00:44:26,900
interiors collapse because you know it's

1114
00:44:30,430 --> 00:44:28,280
its strength is being removed like the

1115
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:30,440
columns the support strength and then

1116
00:44:35,410 --> 00:44:34,010
when it when it falls it's kind of in a

1117
00:44:37,270 --> 00:44:35,420
way like what they do with a controlled

1118
00:44:40,870 --> 00:44:37,280
demolition and that they blow out a

1119
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:40,880
number of sections of the of the

1120
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:42,410
building and then the building will

1121
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:44,930
collapse from from the bottom bottom

1122
00:44:49,660 --> 00:44:47,210
down in botany the pig falls into the

1123
00:44:52,650 --> 00:44:49,670
bottom essentially except that what

1124
00:44:54,490 --> 00:44:52,660
happened here was that the building

1125
00:44:56,950 --> 00:44:54,500
kinked the exterior of the building

1126
00:44:58,630 --> 00:44:56,960
kinked at the bottom and that King kind

1127
00:44:59,950 --> 00:44:58,640
of progressed all the way around and the

1128
00:45:01,060 --> 00:44:59,960
building just kind of fell more or less

1129
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:01,070
straight down because he had no

1130
00:45:05,710 --> 00:45:02,690
supporting strengthen it whish went dumb

1131
00:45:08,590 --> 00:45:05,720
dumb dumb down the bottom and that you

1132
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:08,600
know it makes sense to me but you're

1133
00:45:13,090 --> 00:45:10,130
both of those we just gave explanations

1134
00:45:15,790 --> 00:45:13,100
of things but they're only based on on

1135
00:45:17,020 --> 00:45:15,800
words it's a verbal description and you

1136
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:17,030
can say oh here's the description of

1137
00:45:19,870 --> 00:45:18,170
what happens but it doesn't make any

1138
00:45:20,890 --> 00:45:19,880
sense that you know that would be strong

1139
00:45:22,630 --> 00:45:20,900
enough where he wouldn't be strong

1140
00:45:24,970 --> 00:45:22,640
enough or whatever or I'm saying it does

1141
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:24,980
make sense so what you've really got to

1142
00:45:28,540 --> 00:45:26,690
do is do the math and the physics you

1143
00:45:29,950 --> 00:45:28,550
could have actually work it out I don't

1144
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:29,960
think you're ever gonna convince people

1145
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:34,010
based on these verbal descriptions sure

1146
00:45:38,980 --> 00:45:35,330
and and that's a fair point

1147
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:38,990
um I will just say I'm not sure people

1148
00:45:43,390 --> 00:45:41,090
can find it if people want to read dr.

1149
00:45:46,540 --> 00:45:43,400
Frank readings a paper that he wrote as

1150
00:45:49,690 --> 00:45:46,550
a critique of the NIST report making pie

1151
00:45:52,660 --> 00:45:49,700
I find it somewhere online I probably

1152
00:45:53,950 --> 00:45:52,670
reference it somewhere on my old blog if

1153
00:45:56,050 --> 00:45:53,960
people are interested and want to go to

1154
00:45:59,920 --> 00:45:56,060
my old blog I don't write there anymore

1155
00:46:02,950 --> 00:45:59,930
but it's a Adam Taylor for two dot blog

1156
00:46:06,550 --> 00:46:02,960
spot.com and they can find that if they

1157
00:46:08,950 --> 00:46:06,560
can find all my writings on 9/11 if they

1158
00:46:10,510 --> 00:46:08,960
would like to they're so inclined to

1159
00:46:13,180 --> 00:46:10,520
check it out like I said I don't write

1160
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:13,190
there anymore but I'm still you know

1161
00:46:18,850 --> 00:46:14,810
pretty happy with what I wrote there and

1162
00:46:20,950 --> 00:46:18,860
you know can fat for most of it but yeah

1163
00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:20,960
I feel like some people have put for

1164
00:46:24,550 --> 00:46:22,250
these numbers that show that the

1165
00:46:25,930 --> 00:46:24,560
building is really not collapsing in a

1166
00:46:28,300 --> 00:46:25,940
consistent way like you're saying that

1167
00:46:29,550 --> 00:46:28,310
the moment resisting of the structure

1168
00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:29,560
that that

1169
00:46:34,230 --> 00:46:32,800
itself would allow it to avoid deforming

1170
00:46:36,810 --> 00:46:34,240
the soul allow it to collapse as quickly

1171
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:36,820
as it is once it actually lose its

1172
00:46:43,620 --> 00:46:38,530
strength because it has to reach a point

1173
00:46:45,810 --> 00:46:43,630
of failure and I think if the interior

1174
00:46:48,180 --> 00:46:45,820
of the building was pulling in the walls

1175
00:46:49,740 --> 00:46:48,190
it would fail at that point so it's kind

1176
00:46:51,990 --> 00:46:49,750
of like Hina is standing on a soda can

1177
00:46:54,300 --> 00:46:52,000
and it's able to support your your

1178
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:54,310
weight but when you just push it to push

1179
00:46:58,230 --> 00:46:55,330
the wall and a little bit and it

1180
00:46:59,700 --> 00:46:58,240
collapses yeah it seems like essentially

1181
00:47:00,839 --> 00:46:59,710
the same thing to me except they should

1182
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:00,849
write down at the bottom and obviously

1183
00:47:04,589 --> 00:47:03,010
there's issues of scale which you know

1184
00:47:05,700 --> 00:47:04,599
change the equation but essentially I

1185
00:47:09,359 --> 00:47:05,710
think that's what happened to the

1186
00:47:10,830 --> 00:47:09,369
exterior of the building you know I just

1187
00:47:12,750 --> 00:47:10,840
find it hard to believe that all of that

1188
00:47:14,670 --> 00:47:12,760
is going on inside the building and you

1189
00:47:16,170 --> 00:47:14,680
know for the most part we see no aside

1190
00:47:18,510 --> 00:47:16,180
from some windows breaking because we do

1191
00:47:20,790 --> 00:47:18,520
see that I find it hard to believe that

1192
00:47:23,310 --> 00:47:20,800
you don't see any kind of you know

1193
00:47:24,720 --> 00:47:23,320
deformities happening I believe dr.

1194
00:47:27,750 --> 00:47:24,730
greening said that what you should see

1195
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:27,760
is like a you know the exterior actually

1196
00:47:31,609 --> 00:47:29,890
kind of bowing as a result of that which

1197
00:47:33,720 --> 00:47:31,619
I think you can actually see in one of

1198
00:47:36,540 --> 00:47:33,730
mrs. computer models that there actually

1199
00:47:38,310 --> 00:47:36,550
is as the moment comes down this kind of

1200
00:47:40,260 --> 00:47:38,320
bowing that happens at the top of it so

1201
00:47:42,420 --> 00:47:40,270
that would be consistent with with that

1202
00:47:44,820 --> 00:47:42,430
as well it's an interesting thing I saw

1203
00:47:47,010 --> 00:47:44,830
on video I worked like a year ago I

1204
00:47:49,589 --> 00:47:47,020
notice that other people notice it too

1205
00:47:51,630 --> 00:47:49,599
is that when the penthouse falls down

1206
00:47:53,730 --> 00:47:51,640
you can actually see like a wave go all

1207
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:53,740
the way down through the visible visible

1208
00:47:57,630 --> 00:47:55,330
portion of the building like the

1209
00:47:58,339 --> 00:47:57,640
penthouse is falling from the top to the

1210
00:48:00,960 --> 00:47:58,349
bottom

1211
00:48:02,550 --> 00:48:00,970
yeah I've seen videos people have done

1212
00:48:03,990 --> 00:48:02,560
where they kind of take a video and they

1213
00:48:05,730 --> 00:48:04,000
like color enhance it so you can

1214
00:48:09,140 --> 00:48:05,740
actually see the penthouse going all the

1215
00:48:11,730 --> 00:48:09,150
way down to it yeah

1216
00:48:13,950 --> 00:48:11,740
so I've seen that too so yeah I think

1217
00:48:15,930 --> 00:48:13,960
the penthouse I don't see how it

1218
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:15,940
couldn't either I'm sure it is going all

1219
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:17,890
the way down to the to the bottom of it

1220
00:48:23,460 --> 00:48:20,770
but then you got other people like Toni

1221
00:48:24,930 --> 00:48:23,470
somebody who says that that didn't

1222
00:48:29,670 --> 00:48:24,940
happen and the penthouse just fell down

1223
00:48:32,370 --> 00:48:29,680
a couple of floors because yeah and and

1224
00:48:33,540 --> 00:48:32,380
I heard that from him too and I think I

1225
00:48:36,990 --> 00:48:33,550
thought at the time he had something

1226
00:48:38,690 --> 00:48:37,000
there but then I saw like videos people

1227
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:38,700
had done where they could show it and

1228
00:48:42,660 --> 00:48:41,170
his whole thing was he was just saying

1229
00:48:43,230 --> 00:48:42,670
that because you didn't see sunlight

1230
00:48:45,060 --> 00:48:43,240
coming through

1231
00:48:48,810 --> 00:48:45,070
the windows you saw something like

1232
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:48,820
coming through the top portion where it

1233
00:48:51,690 --> 00:48:50,050
had fallen but you don't see it further

1234
00:48:54,450 --> 00:48:51,700
down so that's what he was basing that

1235
00:48:57,839 --> 00:48:54,460
off of and maybe he's wrong about that

1236
00:49:00,150 --> 00:48:57,849
but I don't think that's you know in a

1237
00:49:02,460 --> 00:49:00,160
rational thing to conclude if you base

1238
00:49:04,410 --> 00:49:02,470
it off something like that now we could

1239
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:04,420
probably go with the details endlessly

1240
00:49:09,570 --> 00:49:07,570
yeah yeah it's getting a carry on like

1241
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:09,580
with your your kind of story here well

1242
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:11,770
you mentioned the the University of

1243
00:49:15,870 --> 00:49:14,530
Alaska study real real quick and do you

1244
00:49:17,730 --> 00:49:15,880
know much about that this is something a

1245
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:17,740
study funded by architects and engineers

1246
00:49:22,980 --> 00:49:21,490
for 9/11 truth to demonstrate what might

1247
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:22,990
have been the cause of the collapse of

1248
00:49:27,870 --> 00:49:25,810
building 7 yeah I've looked at that a

1249
00:49:30,180 --> 00:49:27,880
little bit I know they still have not

1250
00:49:31,349 --> 00:49:30,190
published the final version of it which

1251
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:31,359
is the other thing that's kind of bugged

1252
00:49:37,890 --> 00:49:34,930
me I've given them a little bit more

1253
00:49:41,930 --> 00:49:37,900
leeway on it just because I know this is

1254
00:49:44,310 --> 00:49:41,940
a big project and I also feel like

1255
00:49:45,690 --> 00:49:44,320
people shouldn't be too harsh on that

1256
00:49:48,690 --> 00:49:45,700
because when you look at how long it

1257
00:49:51,870 --> 00:49:48,700
took NIST to get their building 7 report

1258
00:49:54,089 --> 00:49:51,880
out you know that was a whole big thing

1259
00:49:55,859 --> 00:49:54,099
too that just kept setting dates for

1260
00:49:58,320 --> 00:49:55,869
when they release it and they didn't

1261
00:50:00,930 --> 00:49:58,330
release it and I'm you know this is kind

1262
00:50:03,390 --> 00:50:00,940
of the same case here and I think

1263
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:03,400
they're supposed to the next date of

1264
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:05,890
release they said is this September I

1265
00:50:09,839 --> 00:50:08,410
hope it gets released yeah I think I'd

1266
00:50:13,500 --> 00:50:09,849
like to see it around the anniversary

1267
00:50:16,050 --> 00:50:13,510
again yeah so I hope that gets released

1268
00:50:18,990 --> 00:50:16,060
and I kind of have the same conclusion

1269
00:50:21,750 --> 00:50:19,000
about that as I have about other aspects

1270
00:50:25,260 --> 00:50:21,760
of the movement is if it gets done great

1271
00:50:27,810 --> 00:50:25,270
but you know until I see it I'm not

1272
00:50:29,579 --> 00:50:27,820
gonna get my hopes up it's very much you

1273
00:50:31,530 --> 00:50:29,589
know show me the money kind of thing

1274
00:50:32,849 --> 00:50:31,540
like I want to see the actual words on

1275
00:50:35,250 --> 00:50:32,859
the page I want to see this thing

1276
00:50:37,410 --> 00:50:35,260
actually almost out there it looks

1277
00:50:38,730 --> 00:50:37,420
promising but I can't say for sure

1278
00:50:40,170 --> 00:50:38,740
unless they actually put out a final

1279
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:40,180
version of it it will be very

1280
00:50:43,170 --> 00:50:41,290
interesting because it is kind of

1281
00:50:44,579 --> 00:50:43,180
putting numbers to the you know the

1282
00:50:46,500 --> 00:50:44,589
description we just have they're like

1283
00:50:49,859 --> 00:50:46,510
you know could it possibly happen so

1284
00:50:52,500 --> 00:50:49,869
they they did various tests I kind of

1285
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:52,510
feel like there professor hull see is a

1286
00:50:56,580 --> 00:50:56,170
little bit biased towards the control

1287
00:50:58,710 --> 00:50:56,590
down

1288
00:51:00,300 --> 00:50:58,720
in hypothesis but you know we will wait

1289
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:00,310
and say you see what the actual study

1290
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:04,090
itself shows that might be and I think

1291
00:51:08,460 --> 00:51:06,010
it's a good thing they're doing what

1292
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:08,470
NIST did and it's gonna be available for

1293
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:10,450
public comment that you know regardless

1294
00:51:14,700 --> 00:51:13,090
of whatever biases the researchers

1295
00:51:16,500 --> 00:51:14,710
involved in it might have at least

1296
00:51:19,170 --> 00:51:16,510
everybody will get to you know submit

1297
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:19,180
comments on it I'll read it when it

1298
00:51:24,510 --> 00:51:22,090
comes out maybe maybe even submit my own

1299
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:24,520
comments we'll say it was a bit

1300
00:51:29,070 --> 00:51:26,650
disappointing that they started out with

1301
00:51:32,700 --> 00:51:29,080
more promises of openness than they

1302
00:51:33,870 --> 00:51:32,710
actually kind of ended up doing they I

1303
00:51:35,450 --> 00:51:33,880
think it was like almost three years ago

1304
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:35,460
now they started it and they have some

1305
00:51:40,710 --> 00:51:38,410
videos of the two graduate students and

1306
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:40,720
professor Halsey talking about their

1307
00:51:44,250 --> 00:51:42,370
work and then just nothing nothing

1308
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:44,260
that's like complete silence after that

1309
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:46,210
for the next three years he did one

1310
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:51,010
presentation doing a summary but they

1311
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:53,650
didn't really I think involved the

1312
00:51:57,570 --> 00:51:56,050
community in the way that they said they

1313
00:51:59,010 --> 00:51:57,580
were going to do at the start which was

1314
00:52:01,130 --> 00:51:59,020
a bit disappointing but you know we'll

1315
00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:01,140
we'll read the report when he comes in

1316
00:52:13,500 --> 00:52:06,250
right so let's get to your you know kind

1317
00:52:17,220 --> 00:52:13,510
of Ryan Mackey he had a paper on

1318
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:17,230
analyzing the truth movement and you you

1319
00:52:21,450 --> 00:52:19,330
you obviously disagree with a lot of it

1320
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:21,460
be you you there's one suggestion of his

1321
00:52:27,330 --> 00:52:23,410
that you can have took to heart which

1322
00:52:32,150 --> 00:52:27,340
was take a break yes sir what happened

1323
00:52:34,590 --> 00:52:32,160
that well like I said I read his paper

1324
00:52:36,390 --> 00:52:34,600
and you know some of it I don't agree

1325
00:52:38,070 --> 00:52:36,400
with some of it I thought you know he

1326
00:52:41,190 --> 00:52:38,080
made good points and that was a good

1327
00:52:44,430 --> 00:52:41,200
point because he put that paper out in

1328
00:52:47,580 --> 00:52:44,440
2011 I can't remember if it was before

1329
00:52:49,530 --> 00:52:47,590
or after I went to ground zero but you

1330
00:52:51,150 --> 00:52:49,540
know it was around it was at around the

1331
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:51,160
same time that I was kind of having this

1332
00:52:55,980 --> 00:52:54,370
feeling of you know like I said the

1333
00:52:59,160 --> 00:52:55,990
stagnation in the truth movement that

1334
00:53:00,260 --> 00:52:59,170
the momentum was going down it seemed

1335
00:53:02,070 --> 00:53:00,270
like we're gonna like actually

1336
00:53:05,010 --> 00:53:02,080
accomplish our goals and get an

1337
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:05,020
investigation and you know I thought his

1338
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:08,410
suggestion about like just walking away

1339
00:53:12,420 --> 00:53:10,210
taking a break from it just

1340
00:53:13,890 --> 00:53:12,430
you feel about it was a good one you

1341
00:53:16,380 --> 00:53:13,900
know I mean he's right in the paper when

1342
00:53:18,180 --> 00:53:16,390
he says he suggests like taking a month

1343
00:53:19,740 --> 00:53:18,190
off from it and he's right when he says

1344
00:53:23,310 --> 00:53:19,750
yeah there's no harm and just taking a

1345
00:53:25,170 --> 00:53:23,320
month off from it and I did and I took

1346
00:53:28,500 --> 00:53:25,180
like several months off you know from

1347
00:53:31,290 --> 00:53:28,510
time to time and you know it was fine I

1348
00:53:33,210 --> 00:53:31,300
never had an issue with walking away

1349
00:53:36,390 --> 00:53:33,220
from it for a bid or even coming back to

1350
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:36,400
it um you know it didn't really have

1351
00:53:40,740 --> 00:53:38,490
much of a I didn't feel like I was like

1352
00:53:42,150 --> 00:53:40,750
addicted like oh I have to get back into

1353
00:53:46,410 --> 00:53:42,160
this you know I can't stand to be away

1354
00:53:48,030 --> 00:53:46,420
from this research no I felt fine and I

1355
00:53:50,490 --> 00:53:48,040
think it was it was good for me

1356
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:50,500
you know those periods of just stepping

1357
00:53:55,980 --> 00:53:53,650
away and focusing on other things in my

1358
00:54:00,210 --> 00:53:55,990
life things have been doing now like I'm

1359
00:54:03,300 --> 00:54:00,220
focusing on more things you know I still

1360
00:54:05,310 --> 00:54:03,310
fully 100% support a new investigation

1361
00:54:08,370 --> 00:54:05,320
of the attacks like I absolutely do I

1362
00:54:10,260 --> 00:54:08,380
want to see that happen I would love to

1363
00:54:11,790 --> 00:54:10,270
see that be the case so we can really

1364
00:54:13,980 --> 00:54:11,800
get justice for all the people who are

1365
00:54:18,690 --> 00:54:13,990
killed that day and all of their friends

1366
00:54:20,430 --> 00:54:18,700
and family but you know I I have to be

1367
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:20,440
realistic about it and I have to say to

1368
00:54:24,210 --> 00:54:22,210
myself if it doesn't seem like we're

1369
00:54:25,820 --> 00:54:24,220
getting a new investigation we're

1370
00:54:29,609 --> 00:54:25,830
probably not getting a new investigation

1371
00:54:31,620 --> 00:54:29,619
so if that's something that I you know

1372
00:54:34,050 --> 00:54:31,630
had to come to accept and I do accept

1373
00:54:36,030 --> 00:54:34,060
and I do think at this point unless

1374
00:54:38,849 --> 00:54:36,040
something really big happens unless

1375
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:38,859
there's some real big thing that could

1376
00:54:42,329 --> 00:54:40,690
kind of reignite that momentum in the

1377
00:54:43,500 --> 00:54:42,339
truth movement I just don't see how

1378
00:54:47,790 --> 00:54:43,510
we're gonna get a new investigation

1379
00:54:52,140 --> 00:54:47,800
based on what we've currently got you

1380
00:54:53,790 --> 00:54:52,150
said that researching 911 took a toll on

1381
00:55:04,370 --> 00:54:53,800
you

1382
00:55:07,589 --> 00:55:04,380
much time doing this 9/11 investigation

1383
00:55:10,380 --> 00:55:07,599
um I don't know if I would say better

1384
00:55:12,540 --> 00:55:10,390
like I don't think my life was worse for

1385
00:55:15,870 --> 00:55:12,550
looking into 9/11 I want to emphasize

1386
00:55:18,570 --> 00:55:15,880
that like I actually am very grateful

1387
00:55:21,870 --> 00:55:18,580
that I got involved you know the way I

1388
00:55:23,660 --> 00:55:21,880
did I met a lot of amazing people I

1389
00:55:26,630 --> 00:55:23,670
learned an enormous amount

1390
00:55:29,210 --> 00:55:26,640
uh about not just that 11 but a lot of

1391
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:29,220
related subjects like it really you know

1392
00:55:35,089 --> 00:55:32,970
led me into looking into a lot of other

1393
00:55:37,609 --> 00:55:35,099
like bigger world issues which I think

1394
00:55:38,450 --> 00:55:37,619
was a good thing for me to do so I'll

1395
00:55:40,490 --> 00:55:38,460
make that very clear

1396
00:55:42,260 --> 00:55:40,500
I don't regret at all getting involved

1397
00:55:43,910 --> 00:55:42,270
in the truth movement I do think it was

1398
00:55:45,109 --> 00:55:43,920
a rewarding experience that I felt like

1399
00:55:49,010 --> 00:55:45,119
it was a good cause

1400
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:49,020
to uh to work towards but you know it's

1401
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:50,490
one of those things where you do it for

1402
00:55:55,700 --> 00:55:52,650
so long and especially if you don't see

1403
00:55:57,319 --> 00:55:55,710
any progress getting getting made yeah

1404
00:56:00,079 --> 00:55:57,329
it can take a toll on you you kind of

1405
00:56:02,170 --> 00:56:00,089
realize you know there's a point where

1406
00:56:05,319 --> 00:56:02,180
you realize yeah maybe I am

1407
00:56:09,530 --> 00:56:05,329
that was a wasting time on it

1408
00:56:11,150 --> 00:56:09,540
necessarily but you know I have a lot of

1409
00:56:14,109 --> 00:56:11,160
potential to do other things as well

1410
00:56:17,900 --> 00:56:14,119
that I could be putting my time into

1411
00:56:20,539 --> 00:56:17,910
there's still a lot of big issues going

1412
00:56:22,849 --> 00:56:20,549
on in the world obviously and one of the

1413
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:22,859
things I say in my post is that what I

1414
00:56:26,240 --> 00:56:24,210
think people in the movement should be

1415
00:56:29,870 --> 00:56:26,250
doing if they're not looking at 911 is

1416
00:56:31,579 --> 00:56:29,880
just trying to work towards any other

1417
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:31,589
cause in the world and trying to I think

1418
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:33,690
very importantly help to prevent the

1419
00:56:39,170 --> 00:56:36,210
next 911 s from happening you know I

1420
00:56:40,910 --> 00:56:39,180
really think that if we put in as much

1421
00:56:42,950 --> 00:56:40,920
effort as when was put into to kind of

1422
00:56:45,770 --> 00:56:42,960
you know make sure that these sort of

1423
00:56:47,870 --> 00:56:45,780
attacks don't happen again and I think

1424
00:56:50,329 --> 00:56:47,880
to an extent you know if there's any

1425
00:56:52,990 --> 00:56:50,339
lasting impact the movement had I'd like

1426
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:53,000
to think that you know we did at least

1427
00:56:58,609 --> 00:56:56,490
you know did raise the public's you know

1428
00:57:00,410 --> 00:56:58,619
awareness a little bit that at the very

1429
00:57:01,970 --> 00:57:00,420
least we planted and more seeds in

1430
00:57:03,589 --> 00:57:01,980
people's heads that when these kind of

1431
00:57:06,079 --> 00:57:03,599
events happen we should be more

1432
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:06,089
skeptical about it more skeptical of it

1433
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:08,010
not to assume that like every attack is

1434
00:57:11,839 --> 00:57:10,410
you know an inside job obviously but

1435
00:57:14,420 --> 00:57:11,849
just look at things with a more

1436
00:57:16,370 --> 00:57:14,430
objective eye like really look at both

1437
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:16,380
sides more objectively and not just

1438
00:57:21,500 --> 00:57:18,530
accept everything the government says

1439
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:21,510
and I think that you know we did do that

1440
00:57:27,829 --> 00:57:26,130
I hope that is the you know absent

1441
00:57:29,329 --> 00:57:27,839
getting a new investigation I hope that

1442
00:57:31,339 --> 00:57:29,339
is the benefit that the movement brought

1443
00:57:33,950 --> 00:57:31,349
the world that you know we did do some

1444
00:57:35,450 --> 00:57:33,960
you know you know awareness and

1445
00:57:36,210 --> 00:57:35,460
consciousness arising and everything to

1446
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:36,220
kind of help you

1447
00:57:41,310 --> 00:57:39,250
along in that regard yeah yeah

1448
00:57:44,430 --> 00:57:41,320
definitely I mean I think asking

1449
00:57:46,260 --> 00:57:44,440
questions is always good I am I'm not

1450
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:46,270
comparing you to the flat earthers but

1451
00:57:50,130 --> 00:57:48,730
the flat earthers are interesting in

1452
00:57:53,430 --> 00:57:50,140
that they get into people interested in

1453
00:57:55,050 --> 00:57:53,440
science and it actually prompt some some

1454
00:57:56,339 --> 00:57:55,060
thought if people are asking questions

1455
00:57:58,020 --> 00:57:56,349
no matter what they're asking questions

1456
00:57:59,730 --> 00:57:58,030
if they if they're approaching it the

1457
00:58:00,960 --> 00:57:59,740
nice way as these are there's a question

1458
00:58:03,420 --> 00:58:00,970
and I want to figure out what the answer

1459
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:03,430
is and then you learn things and it's

1460
00:58:10,190 --> 00:58:06,490
good you were you were very young though

1461
00:58:13,620 --> 00:58:10,200
when you started you know 9/11 he was 16

1462
00:58:16,230 --> 00:58:13,630
when you you first come into it what

1463
00:58:19,670 --> 00:58:16,240
offends do you think that had on on how

1464
00:58:24,030 --> 00:58:19,680
you kind of I know got into the movement

1465
00:58:26,670 --> 00:58:24,040
looking back now as an older man well I

1466
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:26,680
certainly wish I had gotten involved

1467
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:27,970
from one thing I wish I had gotten

1468
00:58:31,830 --> 00:58:29,890
involved or could have gotten involved

1469
00:58:35,430 --> 00:58:31,840
sooner than I did because getting

1470
00:58:37,020 --> 00:58:35,440
involved in 2007 like I said that was

1471
00:58:39,270 --> 00:58:37,030
kind of the point where I'd say

1472
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:39,280
objectively the movement kind of peaked

1473
00:58:43,950 --> 00:58:40,810
it would have been great to be doing

1474
00:58:45,210 --> 00:58:43,960
stuff like prior to 2007 but you know I

1475
00:58:47,010 --> 00:58:45,220
was just too young

1476
00:58:48,750 --> 00:58:47,020
yeah you know like I said I was 10 when

1477
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:48,760
the attacks happened so there just was

1478
00:58:53,670 --> 00:58:52,210
no way for me to really do that I would

1479
00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:53,680
love it if somehow I can go back in time

1480
00:58:58,980 --> 00:58:56,530
and do more as I am now because I'm

1481
00:59:01,550 --> 00:58:58,990
certainly better informed I have a

1482
00:59:03,839 --> 00:59:01,560
better idea of like the the evidence a

1483
00:59:05,220 --> 00:59:03,849
lot of theories I used to believe in

1484
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:05,230
when I first started out that I don't

1485
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:07,450
believe anymore you know there's

1486
00:59:12,900 --> 00:59:08,890
certainly things I wish I could go back

1487
00:59:16,079 --> 00:59:12,910
and change as far as like what I did

1488
00:59:20,339 --> 00:59:16,089
I don't regret how I handled it because

1489
00:59:21,690 --> 00:59:20,349
I really did try and working with my

1490
00:59:24,390 --> 00:59:21,700
friend John Michael tombow at the

1491
00:59:26,099 --> 00:59:24,400
debunkers blog was really beneficial too

1492
00:59:27,390 --> 00:59:26,109
because he put me on kind of the right

1493
00:59:30,510 --> 00:59:27,400
path to how to look at things more

1494
00:59:31,980 --> 00:59:30,520
objectively into research these topics

1495
00:59:34,109 --> 00:59:31,990
better like that like I said that was

1496
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:34,119
really good at helping me weed out the

1497
00:59:37,740 --> 00:59:35,410
good information from the bad

1498
00:59:39,599 --> 00:59:37,750
information and that's something that we

1499
00:59:42,660 --> 00:59:39,609
really pride ourselves at the debunkers

1500
00:59:44,490 --> 00:59:42,670
blog like we really tried myself John

1501
00:59:47,700 --> 00:59:44,500
Michael and the other posters who were

1502
00:59:49,260 --> 00:59:47,710
there we really tried to look at

1503
00:59:50,730 --> 00:59:49,270
everything as objectively as we

1504
00:59:53,220 --> 00:59:50,740
and do the most responsible research

1505
00:59:55,790 --> 00:59:53,230
that we could and I'm and I'm happy with

1506
00:59:58,980 --> 00:59:55,800
the work I did you know I am happy with

1507
01:00:03,120 --> 00:59:58,990
at least what I was able to do you know

1508
01:00:05,970 --> 01:00:03,130
I wish I had the you know the funds and

1509
01:00:07,710 --> 01:00:05,980
the the team that something like a 9/11

1510
01:00:10,410 --> 01:00:07,720
truth has I'd be doing things

1511
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:10,420
differently if I did but I don't have

1512
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:12,490
that but just based on what I had access

1513
01:00:18,780 --> 01:00:14,850
to I was happy with the work that I did

1514
01:00:21,780 --> 01:00:18,790
yeah so what kind of stuff are you doing

1515
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:21,790
now that what was we was taken the place

1516
01:00:28,530 --> 01:00:26,050
of 9/11 activism for you um honestly

1517
01:00:31,350 --> 01:00:28,540
nowadays I'm just kind of trying to live

1518
01:00:33,900 --> 01:00:31,360
a normal life as much as I can um you

1519
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:33,910
know just working I'm working on a book

1520
01:00:41,730 --> 01:00:38,170
currently interesting book on religion

1521
01:00:43,470 --> 01:00:41,740
I'm kind of a you know I'm a religious

1522
01:00:45,570 --> 01:00:43,480
skeptic so I like to look into stuff

1523
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:45,580
like that nowadays so that's kind of a

1524
01:00:52,290 --> 01:00:48,370
project I'm focusing on now that I have

1525
01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:52,300
more time to focus on but yeah I would

1526
01:00:57,810 --> 01:00:55,930
say that not having 9/11 in my life

1527
01:00:59,430 --> 01:00:57,820
anymore at least not you know

1528
01:01:01,770 --> 01:00:59,440
investigating it and researching it to

1529
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:01,780
the extent that I did it hasn't

1530
01:01:06,750 --> 01:01:04,210
negatively impacted me at all like I'm

1531
01:01:10,350 --> 01:01:06,760
just trying to live a normal life for

1532
01:01:14,310 --> 01:01:10,360
the most part I don't feel this you know

1533
01:01:15,750 --> 01:01:14,320
need to go back to it because I'll say

1534
01:01:17,730 --> 01:01:15,760
that the movement is not gonna stand to

1535
01:01:19,140 --> 01:01:17,740
fall based on me there's so many people

1536
01:01:22,110 --> 01:01:19,150
in it that it's not gonna make a

1537
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:22,120
difference if I'm in it or not I'd like

1538
01:01:25,950 --> 01:01:24,490
to contribute if I can but I think I've

1539
01:01:28,380 --> 01:01:25,960
pretty much done what I can do at this

1540
01:01:31,050 --> 01:01:28,390
point there's not much more I can do

1541
01:01:33,660 --> 01:01:31,060
that's gonna you know lead us into a new

1542
01:01:37,590 --> 01:01:33,670
investigation right all right well

1543
01:01:39,750 --> 01:01:37,600
closing out like if someone was you know

1544
01:01:41,940 --> 01:01:39,760
a young person was interested in 9/11

1545
01:01:46,020 --> 01:01:41,950
now would you give them any advice or

1546
01:01:47,940 --> 01:01:46,030
point them in a specific direction a

1547
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:47,950
young person as far as like somebody

1548
01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:50,610
maybe like my age when I got involved in

1549
01:01:59,040 --> 01:01:56,410
1616 yeah um I would say if that's

1550
01:02:02,020 --> 01:01:59,050
something that you want to do by all

1551
01:02:04,599 --> 01:02:02,030
means like I'm not gonna tell you

1552
01:02:07,330 --> 01:02:04,609
patter on your life what to do I would

1553
01:02:10,180 --> 01:02:07,340
recommend not getting involved in that

1554
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:10,190
at least at this stage only because

1555
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:11,690
there are so many other issues that we

1556
01:02:16,420 --> 01:02:13,210
have to deal with in the world right now

1557
01:02:19,390 --> 01:02:16,430
and I don't think it's like I said it's

1558
01:02:21,099 --> 01:02:19,400
not going to be up to I think the common

1559
01:02:22,750 --> 01:02:21,109
person to get the new investigation I

1560
01:02:25,540 --> 01:02:22,760
think we can certainly help you know

1561
01:02:27,220 --> 01:02:25,550
like any person matter who you are the

1562
01:02:30,099 --> 01:02:27,230
the common person can make a difference

1563
01:02:31,690 --> 01:02:30,109
in the world absolutely but you know

1564
01:02:34,690 --> 01:02:31,700
there's obviously people who have access

1565
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:34,700
to more material and has more

1566
01:02:38,470 --> 01:02:36,530
capabilities than the average person

1567
01:02:40,420 --> 01:02:38,480
like the bigger groups in the truth

1568
01:02:42,970 --> 01:02:40,430
movement and it's really gonna be up to

1569
01:02:44,650 --> 01:02:42,980
them and if you see them and you see

1570
01:02:46,450 --> 01:02:44,660
that they're making the kind of progress

1571
01:02:48,609 --> 01:02:46,460
that you think they should be making and

1572
01:02:50,650 --> 01:02:48,619
you want to get involved by all means if

1573
01:02:52,810 --> 01:02:50,660
you're like me and you look at them and

1574
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:52,820
think they're not really doing the work

1575
01:02:57,099 --> 01:02:54,170
they should be doing and you think it's

1576
01:02:59,020 --> 01:02:57,109
a lost cause then I'd say you know focus

1577
01:03:02,349 --> 01:02:59,030
on other things try new what you can in

1578
01:03:05,710 --> 01:03:02,359
the world but try to enjoy your life too

1579
01:03:08,020 --> 01:03:05,720
the only real regret I take away from it

1580
01:03:10,930 --> 01:03:08,030
all is just knowing we won't get a new

1581
01:03:13,750 --> 01:03:10,940
investigation that saddens me immensely

1582
01:03:15,990 --> 01:03:13,760
just thinking about all the people who

1583
01:03:19,599 --> 01:03:16,000
died that day and all the people who

1584
01:03:21,010 --> 01:03:19,609
lost loved ones that day you know that's

1585
01:03:22,540 --> 01:03:21,020
been the biggest thing for me the whole

1586
01:03:26,230 --> 01:03:22,550
reason that I wanted to look into this

1587
01:03:28,780 --> 01:03:26,240
was seeing how many problems there were

1588
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:28,790
and how badly this affected the people

1589
01:03:33,430 --> 01:03:31,250
who were you know most affected by that

1590
01:03:35,829 --> 01:03:33,440
day the family members people who lost

1591
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:35,839
loved ones that day it saddens me

1592
01:03:39,550 --> 01:03:37,250
immensely that they're not going to get

1593
01:03:41,589 --> 01:03:39,560
closure to this and then that's the big

1594
01:03:43,210 --> 01:03:41,599
server and I take away from it I wish

1595
01:03:45,339 --> 01:03:43,220
you know those people could get the

1596
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:45,349
justice they want to see it just seems

1597
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:46,130
like we're not gonna get that

1598
01:03:53,349 --> 01:03:49,730
unfortunately yeah yeah I see you're uh

1599
01:03:54,940 --> 01:03:53,359
you do post things about the First

1600
01:03:59,680 --> 01:03:54,950
Responder things like the Jon Stewart's

1601
01:04:01,930 --> 01:03:59,690
outlet is great you know it's very very

1602
01:04:03,579 --> 01:04:01,940
real issue regardless of what your

1603
01:04:05,140 --> 01:04:03,589
beliefs are about what happened that day

1604
01:04:08,290 --> 01:04:05,150
you know obviously those people were

1605
01:04:13,150 --> 01:04:08,300
hurt and they deserve to be taken care

1606
01:04:14,779 --> 01:04:13,160
of which is absolutely all right you got

1607
01:04:20,209 --> 01:04:14,789
anything else you answered

1608
01:04:22,669 --> 01:04:20,219
about our um nothing uh nothing to plug

1609
01:04:26,390 --> 01:04:22,679
I'll say like I said before if people

1610
01:04:28,909 --> 01:04:26,400
want to look at my past writings on 9/11

1611
01:04:33,319 --> 01:04:28,919
they can go to my old blog that's a Adam

1612
01:04:37,219 --> 01:04:33,329
Taylor for two numbers or to dot blog

1613
01:04:39,349 --> 01:04:37,229
spot.com I've got in the sidebars all my

1614
01:04:42,799 --> 01:04:39,359
writings about 9/11 and some other

1615
01:04:44,900 --> 01:04:42,809
interviews I've done about 9/11 if you

1616
01:04:46,999 --> 01:04:44,910
want to go look if you're so inclined

1617
01:04:50,150 --> 01:04:47,009
by all means like I said I don't post

1618
01:04:51,709 --> 01:04:50,160
there anymore but yeah for the most part

1619
01:04:55,189 --> 01:04:51,719
I could still about for what I have on

1620
01:04:57,949 --> 01:04:55,199
that site it's just not my primary

1621
01:05:00,169 --> 01:04:57,959
interest nowadays you know it's try to

1622
01:05:02,569 --> 01:05:00,179
live a normal life and enjoy it as much

1623
01:05:03,650 --> 01:05:02,579
as they can right well well thank you

1624
01:05:05,449 --> 01:05:03,660
very much this has been really

1625
01:05:08,150 --> 01:05:05,459
interesting it was a great great

1626
01:05:09,259 --> 01:05:08,160
discussion and I think your story is

1627
01:05:12,650 --> 01:05:09,269
very interesting and yeah we obviously

1628
01:05:15,140 --> 01:05:12,660
we disagree on quite a variety of things

1629
01:05:17,809 --> 01:05:15,150
I'm sure but yeah I think we're less

1630
01:05:21,499 --> 01:05:17,819
every day I think we also yeah it is

1631
01:05:23,959 --> 01:05:21,509
fine to disagree if you do it in a in an

1632
01:05:28,759 --> 01:05:23,969
honest way and I think we both want

1633
01:05:31,370 --> 01:05:28,769
we've over the goal of removing the

1634
01:05:33,439 --> 01:05:31,380
things that are definitely false we just

1635
01:05:35,179 --> 01:05:33,449
kind of disagree on where we draw the

1636
01:05:41,630 --> 01:05:35,189
line we both want to get rid of those no

1637
01:05:41,989 --> 01:05:41,640
planers yes we we draw the line on other

1638
01:05:44,830 --> 01:05:41,999
matters